A New Website for WoW Modding

[Ohai]

and yea about the title color, gievf contributor title color, I was just offering them a new logo and premium themeforest themes for free, that cost dinero in the real world gringoo $$€  

[Barbz]

Stuff will be posted at both sites until one of them dies -- and i probably will be modcraft. Reputation, Shoutbox and a new design won't change the state of modding. That 800€ would better have been spent on supporting some developer or reverse engineer in doing/finding stuff for the community.

Let's say I have 1000€ in my pocket.
We would have to determine, aside from finding an available dev, what is the most useful task we should ask him to change the "state of modding".
I do think that's the tricky part. What brings normal, everyday people into mods ?
Maybe we should analyze how some game got their successful community, see what the end user gets in front of his eyes and what motivates him to try multiple mods. Then we could have an idea of the road to take.

That's because there isn't any player playing on anything modders make. Developers, modders are players first and there is nothing incredible they can play which would inspire them to start modding. They may think it's too hard.
The only way would be to make a private server with interesting stuff. But that's way harder than modding in local.

[MountainLion]

This entire thread is beginning to look like advertising to me. Which I personally don't mind.

But on topic, I think it's good that you guys are trying to "refresh" the scene by taking matters into your own hands. I've seen your website a couple times already and imo both Modcraft and yours could do better in certain aspects. Sometimes simple & easy does it, unless you're main targets are kids.

Regardless and as Schlumpf already mentioned, none of what has been said or discussed has to do with the decline of activity within this area of the modding scene. There is no need to attribute things to the "problem"... And it's not a problem, you know. It's not a problem that there are no new faces in the scene. The biggest problem I see is people reworking the same concepts over and over again with projects. Years and years of pretty much "the same thing", it's boring.

I have seen here a few (very few) neat ideas that have potential. Take for example Stoneharry's recent project which is sort of like a single player dungeon mode, I think. It's cool and more people should join that project. Learn along the way and contribute to it, let it grow and then start on something else. But everyone's too busy with their own "unique stuff" and exactly that has been the problem here forever I think. Which is what divides the community into circle jerk groups. Take Maruum for example, you don't like it? Fine. Although at least, someone proposed the bigger project and put it on the table. What happened? Well...

So let's say that either Modcraft or you're site starts bringing in fresh modders into the scene again, what then? Sure, their first goal will be to learn about the scene, but then they'll want to start with their own stuff. And that's fine, but there is no sense of unity towards a common goal.

So my conclusion is that the one true problem with the scene is the lack of a common goal. To accomplish things as a whole community; Developed Tools, Completed Projects and Hunger for more creation.

Currently no one is offering this. Everyone's busy in rl but when you really enjoy the hobbies you have you make time for them... If it's worth it.

There's my two cents.

[Milly]

This entire thread is beginning to look like advertising to me.

Well, uh... I thought this was pretty obvious. Nothing wrong with promoting something in the appropriate forum category.

Sometimes simple & easy does it, unless you're main targets are kids.

Do you really need to stoop to that level? :| https://youtu.be/nFwtbNPb6x8?t=5m30s

Regardless and as Schlumpf already mentioned, none of what has been said or discussed has to do with the decline of activity within this area of the modding scene.

Schlumpf did not even say that, and I think you're wrong.

Everything else you've mentioned here is a topic of the best practices for WoW Modding, and is only slightly related to our website discussion. They're valid concerns, but they deserve an entirely new thread.

I'll emphasize once more, a new website is not a remedy it is merely a medicine.

Question: Can a new site bring in new people and indirectly improve the modding scene? Answer: Yes. Yes it can. Will it? We will see. But I think that's enough incentive to stop repeating what has already been said and saying that our ideas won't work.

[spik96]

And why did you name it model-changing, if its just content from modcraft, meaning WoW related. Modcraft says WoW model chaning is to general, there's alot of things you should change imo.
[...]
I dunno i think you would have to name that one modcraft aswell, be more active on social networks(although for promotion of WoW in general there isnt much you can do except build awsome private servers ). [...]

According to this post I believe you think the new site initiative comes from original Modcraft owners.
That's wrong. In fact if I remember well that's because they didn't liked the idea of revamping the site (in this way, at least) that this initiative emerged. So there is no way they can just "keep" the name Modcraft, since they never got it at first.

In a perfect world, the best thing would be revamping Modcraft (if Modcraft has any issue), and promoting Modcraft to players and developers. I think everybody agrees with that. But I guess with conflicts it was not possible, hence the new site.
Please fix my words if I'm wrong.

[Skarn]

And why did you name it model-changing, if its just content from modcraft, meaning WoW related. Modcraft says WoW model chaning is to general, there's alot of things you should change imo.
[...]
I dunno i think you would have to name that one modcraft aswell, be more active on social networks(although for promotion of WoW in general there isnt much you can do except build awsome private servers ). [...]

According to this post I believe you think the new site initiative comes from original Modcraft owners.
That's wrong. In fact if I remember well that's because they didn't liked the idea of revamping the site (in this way, at least) that this initiative emerged. So there is no way they can just "keep" the name Modcraft, since they never got it at first.

In a perfect world, the best thing would be revamping Modcraft (if Modcraft has any issue), and promoting Modcraft to players and developers. I think everybody agrees with that. But I guess with conflicts it was not possible, hence the new site.
Please fix my words if I'm wrong.

Yeah, basically, the original idea was to make community better. We offered Steff help, he refused. Then we obviously could do nothing to make this site better if its main admin does not want to change anything. He said he is working on a new site, new domain name himself. Well, neither of these things seems to exist now. So, I think the reason for us making an entirely new site is pretty obvious, I think.

[Ohai]

According to this post I believe you think the new site initiative comes from original Modcraft owners.
That's wrong. In fact if I remember well that's because they didn't liked the idea of revamping the site (in this way, at least) that this initiative emerged. So there is no way they can just "keep" the name Modcraft, since they never got it at first.

In a perfect world, the best thing would be revamping Modcraft (if Modcraft has any issue), and promoting Modcraft to players and developers. I think everybody agrees with that. But I guess with conflicts it was not possible, hence the new site.
Please fix my words if I'm wrong.

You're right I did think at first it was a new modcraft realized later its a different site, but the first post was kinda misguiding in that way, but still I think you rushed a few things. Name model changing, wowmods wowmodding or something would be more appropriate, and was looking at the website again this morning that slider lol, you have it on every single page I got on a profile page and it was even there.. I just cant belive 4 web designers said that was a good idea. You wont find 1 website on the internet with something like that, but I dont want to sound negative I support you and the whole initiave

[spik96]

I agree the slider is a bit big (but not a bad idea, just resizing it would improve a lot of readability on smaller screens), and the name is a bit too specific, but I don't have a better idea myself so I won't complain. things like wowmodding would be too generic to create an identity on the Web.

[Milly]

You're right I did think at first it was a new modcraft realized later its a different site, but the first post was kinda misguiding in that way, but still I think you rushed a few things. Name model changing, wowmods wowmodding or something would be more appropriate, and was looking at the website again this morning that slider lol, you have it on every single page I got on a profile page and it was even there.. I just cant belive 4 web designers said that was a good idea. You wont find 1 website on the internet with something like that, but I dont want to sound negative I support you and the whole initiave

We really didn't rush anything at all though. It took us 5 months to decide on model-changing.net. It went from craftymods, to bnet-dev, to model-changing. The first one was never meant to be taken seriously so don't judge

But the point is, we would brainstorm; like every week. Every one of us would spam our chat coming up with names. None of them stuck. We even created two public threads on our forums requesting website names. Nobody ever showed up with a decent idea. And there were TONs of ideas, but they all sucked. When we decided on bnet-dev, we actually had someone who came on and was furious about how shitty it was. This sunk in.

In truth, our website has actually been ready to release for 2 months now. What held us back for so long was a name. We didn't have a name that we were proud of and felt comfortable with. Eventually we decided on Model Changing.

And I understand your concerns, it's a weird name, but it's not meant literally. It's a legacy term taken from the lore of WoW Modding. People like MC Addicts (Model Changing Addicts) were the founders of this passion. There is also Hyakki's French modding forum called MC Revolution.

There's only so many different website possibilities using the terms WoW, Modding, Mods, and so on. They're all super generic as spik96 said, or they're cheesy sounding like Adjective WoW for a private server name. And if you don't choose one of these generic names, you at least need to choose something that is relevant enough for people to recognize the product or service that you offer. Model Changing fits perfectly.

Moving on to concerns about the slider: Our initial plan was to only have it on the front page. We originally had a bridged system using WordPress and phpBB3.1 which we eventually trashed because it was garbage. However we made every attempt to give the forum a good design without using the slider, and it just didn't work.

The entire page would jump around each time you click through the navigation, because adding/removing the slider depending on the page also increases/decreases the page's size by like 50%. It was an awful clunky system. and we wanted a smooth and consistent feel to our website. So you know everything was made to work in unity. Also, since our navigation is tied to the very top of the page, it left us little to no choice. There just aren't many good forum designs that involve having the navigation at the top. Modcraft for example has a banner before the navigation.

I understand you have a lot of strong opinions especially coming from a web designer perspective. But I assure you we're not toddlers drooling over each other. We spent months on this and carefully considered every possibility while working with our initial plans. Your solution seems to be to throw 6 months of work away, switch to a different CMS, and get a free theme from the satanic cash-farm that people call Theme Forest. I'm sorry... but no... That's just insane.

Let's put this on record: We really love our website name, and we love our slider as well. These two things make up a large portion of our website's identity and are the characteristics that we've grown quite fond of over the past few months. We will not change them. If enough people dislike the slider, we'll see about adding a button to hide it.

I appreciate you wanting to avoid negativity. Let's do that, please. Everyone has differences  

[Смердокрыл]

Imho, "modcraft.net" would be much better. "Model changing" suggests a website dedicated to modelling, which does not include serverside scripting, world editing, etc. Also, unlike the new website, Modcraft's design and colour scheme are kind of cosy.There's just too much blue on mc.net and it feels cold.

Also, regarding the moding community part. You might not take my opinion seriously, since Im a comparatively new user and havent really contributed to the website, but I'll still say: I think that what scares off newcomers is that there are too much "showoff" and "pay for my work/help" posts and topics, instead of "tutorial" and "release". Yes, everyone needs money but such a scientific community will not progress if its only driven by profit.

Another point will be explained in the following little diagram:
How modding should work:

Code: [Select]

<======   ======>
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Modding    Official WoW

How it actually works:

Code: [Select]

         ======>
         ||
         ||
         ||
         ||
         ||
<======  ||
      || ||
      || ||
      || ||
Modding    Official WoW
Sitting on the old rusty and ugly WotLK just because its comfortable is not at all a way to progress. If the modding community should develop, it should start from modding itself.

[Milly]

Well, we can't steal the name Modcraft. Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.

Also, the reasoning behind "Model Changing" has already been explained here.

Though, I agree with the other things you said. Sitting on Wrath isn't necessarily good.

[Смердокрыл]

Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.

Why so?

[spik96]

Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.

Why so?

I guess in 2015 the biggest modding community between the games ending in "craft" (Minecraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft) is clearly the Minecraft community. Therefore people would expect this to be this kind of website, if you were to say "Modcraft".

[Krack3n]

Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.

Why so?

I guess in 2015 the biggest modding community between the games ending in "craft" (Minecraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft) is clearly the Minecraft community. Therefore people would expect this to be this kind of website, if you were to say "Modcraft".

Completely agree.

[MountainLion]

Sorry did I say advertisement? I meant to say recruitment.

I very much dislike how people always have to be defensive or corrective and you are like that I believe.

But like I was trying to say, regardless, good luck with the website in all honesty.

Take it or leave it lol seriously