Modcraft - The community dedicated to quality WoW modding!
Projects => Development and Presentation => Topic started by: Milly on November 23, 2015, 10:13:18 pm
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(http://i.imgur.com/WDNlJWr.jpg)
Hi everyone, I hope you are well. I want to talk to you about my concerns and why I think we need change if we want the modding scene to survive. For those of us (myself included) who originally come from and have deep roots in Modcraft, you might wonder what's the point of creating a new website. I'm going to try my best to explain my point of view without pissing everyone off and causing a flame war. I'm also not very confident with that statement, but hey, I tried. Let's begin:
First and foremost, the WoW Modding scene simply isn't as active as it used to be. With the decline of WoW's subscriber base, a lot of people have also been leaving the modding scene as well. Some of us might look at this and think of it as justification for Modcraft's inactivity, but let's take a closer look: The most recent census for World of Warcraft's subscriber count is 5.6 million, a far cry from what it used to be. Though how many of us have considered how big that number actually is, despite it being a huge decline? Think about it. How can we be struggling to keep the modding scene alive when there's still 5.6 million players who love Warcraft, most of which are young, creative, computer-literate people? Let's also consider the tens of thousands of people who know how to access and play on private servers, as well as the 5+ million who are sitting on the bench hoping that Legion will revive WoW and they can start playing again.
Don't get me wrong when I insist that this is all because of lack of effort. I mean, Modcraft really is a great website to learn about modding and connect with other people who share the same passion, but it's still very lacking in several aspects. So, what's wrong all of a sudden? Nothing in particular, Modcraft is the same as it ever was and everyone seems just as satisfied as they ever were. But this mentality has led us to set our standards way too low. Still to this day, all you read are people complaining that there just isn't enough modders working on tools or collaborating on projects. Can we take just a few moments to wonder why there aren't people doing these things?
Maybe it's because nobody knows about WoW Modding? Modcraft is running on some free web-hosting service, at least from what I've been told. Plus it has made no known effort to advertise. It also has a ".de" extension, which cripples its potential to reach audiences that aren't living in Germany. The domain name itself is also heavily obfuscated and hard to remember. Wouldn't we prefer a more desirable name such as "model-changing.net" to make us easier to find? And maybe we could also put more emphasis on making the users (especially newcomers) feel like they're getting a user experience that they deserve?
To me, the most important aspect of any website that I'll be spending a lot of time staring at, is the color scheme and design. Though, it's easy to understand why some people prefer functionality. But ultimately Modcraft doesn't excel in either of these senses. The design is white on gray on gray on black on black, and it comes packed with an assortment of graphical glitches (http://imgur.com/a/1J2EG (http://imgur.com/a/1J2EG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)) as well. It may be functionally sound but it's still an outdated phpBB forum which lacks basic modern features and a visual WYSIWYG post editor. And beyond these aspects, the only thing that Modcraft is really good at is content, albeit outdated with lots of broken links.
At this point I hope you at least understand my concerns, even if you don't fully share them. But what can we do as mere users to help improve Modcraft? Well, me and Skarn started working on a new website in July as a surprise gift to the modding community. Before we finished it we requested Steff's involvement so that we could focus our efforts and use our website to help improve Modcraft. Steff was offended that we kept this project a secret, even though we were just trying to making a meaningful impression. He then declined our offer and explained that he was already working on a new website. and he didn't agree with our approach. These events occurred just a few days before the ambitious Modcraft Community post showed up, which inevitably never saw fruition.
It has now been four months since Modcraft set its course towards a new website, yet we've only seen a few positive changes; new moderators, and some post pruning. The most significant change came off as very undesirable, as expressed by the majority of our users. That of course was the removal of the username ranks such as Advanced Artist, Contributor, etc., which a lot of people worked very hard for and didn't ask to be removed. With that being said, the only other major change within the past five years was the removal of the shoutbox; once again, an unwanted change. Nowadays Modcraft's activity is dwindling even further and the only moderator who is around anymore is schlumpf (praise his dedication), and Steff hasn't posted at all since October 19th. I believe it's safe to assume that this new "Modcraft.io" website isn't actually coming, especially with Maruum, Noggit 1.5, and other projects holding higher priority. We need to accept the fact that there won't be any progress if we sit around and wait for other people to do it for us.
So... Let's start a new community! An organization that does not innovate cannot survive. So let's hold our own leash and walk ourselves outside. We've given Modcraft its chance, we've given feedback and made suggestions, asked for featured projects and a shoutbox. Mostly everything we've ever asked for has been ignored. The few things that have actually been implemented were done so in a way that suits higher opinions and not what was actually asked of them.
My proposal is as follows: Let's bring back the shoutbox and the username ranks. Let's switch to a paid website host, better forum software (Invision Power), and a better domain name for search engine optimization. Let's cast aside what Steff literally referred to as a "good totalitary system" and start emphasizing the needs of our users; the people who have nurtured our community for years.
Despite our instincts to be conservative, let's add new features, not because they're necessary, but because they're nice. Let's spend 800 € on our website design because I'm fucking insane. And let's finally stop talking like we haven't done these things already, because we have. Me, Skarn, and Prokion have worked many months to bring this website to you, and it is now finished. You need not ask what the difference is, see it for yourself. We understand that some people actually prefer phpBB over Invision Power, Modcraft over MC-Net, and this design over that design. But we fight for the greater good and I believe there's something positive here for everyone.
You'll find many useful features that come pre-packaged with the IPS Suite on our website, as well as many plugins and custom modifications tailored to our purposes. All of these are improvements. We've also utilized the Invision Power modular applications to create different sections to our website, such as the Portal, the dedicated Releases section, an image Gallery, our Projects directory, and the Tutorials board. And of course, you can make use of the really cool social media tools such as user profiles and proper message inboxes as well.
Remember, we did this all as an act of charity. There is nothing of value for us to gain here other than satisfaction. We don't have a Maruum agenda. We worked relentlessly for months to make this happen, and it was only to help improve the community that we love. Our community really deserves more than what it had. Unfortunately, our offer to merge our efforts with Modcraft and move forward as one was denied. But that won't stop us. WoW Modding is our passion, and we really want to see it thrive again--even if it has never truly thrived.
http://www.model-changing.net/forums/ (http://www.model-changing.net/forums/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
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Well, I can't agree more, really. The main point why WoW modding is slowly dying is being frozen on one particular expansion which is already outdated (Yes, people want fancy graphics) and even the one we are on does not have all the required tools developed. :?: And why?
Because the community is inactive, and most people don't know that it exists. That's why we need to move on.
:arrow: Guys, just recall the old times when the community was getting new modders, new tools were developed and well, I have to admit, shoutbox existed. This social factor is very important for the community to exist, function and develop itseilf. Otherwise, it turns into a board where skilled people just help some newbies and seldom throw a coupld of pics to each other.
Is not it the time to stop backporting stuff and finally be able to use the recent client versions on full potential? Mhm?
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I definetely support this idea, some valid arguments for once. Instead of the endless waiting for things that will never happen.
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At looong last. You have my full support, however, I won't leave this forum. I will just stay here, and also help you.
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At looong last. You have my full support, however, I won't leave this forum. I will just stay here, and also help you.
Thank you Amaroth, for your words. I also would never expect you to leave Modcraft behind. So long as this place remains a source of WoW Modding knowledge, I'll be here too. But moreso there.
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We have to keep in mind that the players who leave live servers maybe want to continue their epic adventure somewhere. And where ? On private servers of course ! I was talking of modding with some players on live servers, and they was pretty interested. Some peoples just to play, but maybe other to create new content or tools, there's level designer or coder guys who play on these servers.
We have to redirect them on modding forums, to grow the community and the knowledges.
In my case, I can't choose one forum and leave the other, so I post my work on the two sides, no one jealous.
But if the community doesn't evolve and stay at the same level here, we can move forward and feed it on the other. We can work in harmony, side by side, without brawl or war. Nobody to spit on peoples who don't have same opinion or less knowledge.
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In my case, I can't choose one forum and leave the other, so I post my work on the two sides, no one jealous.
But if the community doesn't evolve and stay at the same level here, we can move forward and feed it on the other. We can work in harmony, side by side, without brawl or war. Nobody to spit on peoples who don't have same opinion or less knowledge.
Here comes a very good point. What about Ownedcore? And, are there any other websites I am not familiar with? Any chance of working together with them?
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As you may have noticed guys, no one here persuades anyone to leave anything. We are also active members of Modcraft ourselves while being the admins of another modding related site. It is fine, I think. Modcraft is a good site that contains loads of useful information but the way it works is a dead end for modding, so we just try to create something better.
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I am a great internet traveler, and I'll go on your forum, if modding needs to evolve, and it is necessary to create a new platform to reach this goal, I'll be on it for sure.
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Great ! It look like very good :)
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I agree with every Idea you put forward, I'll be there as well (but still here too as long as Modcraft will last) :)
If there is anything we can do to help, just say so (I'd gladly help for one)... :)
Ur site's design's pretty good!
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Stuff will be posted at both sites until one of them dies -- and i probably will be modcraft. Reputation, Shoutbox and a new design won't change the state of modding (http://www.model-changing.net/forums/topic/66-a-talk-about-expansions). That 800€ would better have been spent on supporting some developer or reverse engineer in doing/finding stuff for the community.
(http://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljry6b0sTs1qixleeo1_500.gif)
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I believe reputation, shoutbox, design AND domain name and other things can help bringing and keeping new blood into modding scene - and thus help to change that state of modding you mentioned schlumpf.
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Stuff will be posted at both sites until one of them dies -- and i probably will be modcraft. Reputation, Shoutbox and a new design won't change the state of modding (http://www.model-changing.net/forums/topic/66-a-talk-about-expansions). That 800€ would better have been spent on supporting some developer or reverse engineer in doing/finding stuff for the community.
Well, I won't disagree with you. That money could have been spent on a hundred different things, such as my college education. A new website doesn't guarantee us anything. But if we're lucky, and we actually put forth effort, it might breathe some life back into the modding community. I think it's already starting in some ways.
Hopefully this might attract some developers and improve our prospects on the modding side of thing, maybe not. In any case, as I mentioned in the post you linked, we're still basically fucked as far as emulators are concerned.
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Stuff will be posted at both sites until one of them dies -- and i probably will be modcraft. Reputation, Shoutbox and a new design won't change the state of modding (http://www.model-changing.net/forums/topic/66-a-talk-about-expansions). That 800€ would better have been spent on supporting some developer or reverse engineer in doing/finding stuff for the community.
Let's say I have 1000€ in my pocket.
We would have to determine, aside from finding an available dev, what is the most useful task we should ask him to change the "state of modding".
I do think that's the tricky part. What brings normal, everyday people into mods ?
Maybe we should analyze how some game got their successful community, see what the end user gets in front of his eyes and what motivates him to try multiple mods. Then we could have an idea of the road to take.
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Just by having a working (map) editor for newer versions than 3.3.5 the modding scene would be more active in my opinion.
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As a web designer I would like to add a few things no offense to anyone its a nice initiative and this is just some friendly advice, 1st functionally the slider on the top isn't really necessary you should try composing the front page to hold all relevant categories up front as soon as the page loads without using the scroller, you can manage art/design in the free space around the forum interface.
Second thing design wise the logo is really bad is that a comic sans font or something?:) I can make a nice logo for you, this is the most recent one I made for a friends private server
(http://s27.postimg.org/58vc1cy43/logo_big2.png)
http://postimg.org/image/u24w20h4f/ (http://postimg.org/image/u24w20h4f/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
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As a web designer I would like to add a few things no offense to anyone its a nice initiative and this is just some friendly advice, 1st functionally the slider on the top isn't really necessary you should try composing the front page to hold all relevant categories up front as soon as the page loads without using the scroller, you can manage art/design in the free space around the forum interface.
Second thing thing design wise the logo is really bad is that a comic sans font or something?:) I can make a nice logo for you, this is the most recent one I made for a friends private server
Yes, the logo is really bad. I made it in a hurry and can't afford to pay people anymore, because of Uni. I can assure you it's definitely not Comic Sans though. As for the slider, we decided it is necessary after spending about 3 months trying to find an alternative to it. During that time we've asked for feedback from dozens of people, consulted 4 different web designers, and brain-stormed plenty ourselves. I also went to school for web design over a short time before quitting because I didn't like it and financial reasons.
Btw.. we really, really love the slider :) Thank you for the thoughts though
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Well ofcourse its not set in stone what you should do on your website its yours after all, but theres nice WP templates with scrolling backgrounds or paralax backgrounds if you want to put WoW art more prominently. Sliders function usually is linking that image to some content on the website, and since you put it up there just aesthetically you could add more images at least lol, but again its up to you.
And what CMS did you use I couldnt detect anything was this custom made?
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This was made using the Invision Power Suite. Also, we're still new so we haven't really gotten around to a lot of things. The main purpose of the slider is actually to hold text and link to featured projects and so on. However, this was one of our ambitions during our WordPress/phpBB phase, and I'm not totally sure how the new slider works. It's a third party slider added in entirely separate from the Invision Power platform.
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And why did you name it model-changing, if its just content from modcraft, meaning WoW related. Modcraft says WoW model chaning is to general, there's alot of things you should change imo.
I mean its nice that you want to help modcraft and everything, but promotion wise a new site isnt really necessary, social networking facebook and twitter will do just fine unless you're willing to cash in for ads or whatever. Also 1 thing I think you're forgetting modcraft may be old and designed like this however it is, but in with these specialized groups like this one people get used to the same forum like this and many dont pay attention to the design, becuase its not just art theres alot of programming also, and modcraft did build a name for itself in this period and its like youre just throwing that away or aside..
I dunno i think you would have to name that one modcraft aswell, be more active on social networks(although for promotion of WoW in general there isnt much you can do except build awsome private servers :P). And about the the new site it could be ok, with some redesigning dunno, I got alot of themeforest excellent WP themes and can help out if you need anything gotta go on skype now lol
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I disagree
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And why did you name it model-changing, if its just content from modcraft, meaning WoW related. Modcraft says WoW model chaning is to general, there's alot of things you should change imo.
I mean its nice that you want to help modcraft and everything, but promotion wise a new site isnt really necessary, social networking facebook and twitter will do just fine unless you're willing to cash in for ads or whatever. Also 1 thing I think you're forgetting modcraft may be old and designed like this however it is, but in with these specialized groups like this one people get used to the same forum like this and many dont pay attention to the design, becuase its not just art theres alot of programming also, and modcraft did build a name for itself in this period and its like youre just throwing that away or aside..
I dunno i think you would have to name that one modcraft aswell, be more active on social networks(although for promotion of WoW in general there isnt much you can do except build awsome private servers :P). And about the the new site it could be ok, with some redesigning dunno, I got alot of themeforest excellent WP themes and can help out if you need anything gotta go on skype now lol
Come on, you can't promote something that does not want to be promoted and you also can't help in that case. Among staff members I currently only see schulmpf being active all the time here and maybe 1-2 modertators. The community can't evolve if it is isolated from the world and is not maintained by its admins. Seriously, Modcraft has been getting worse and worse since 2012 in everything. Shoutbox removal, stupid rank equalizing, reduction of online and many more things.
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I agree with skarn.
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Come on, you can't promote something that does not want to be promoted and you also can't help in that case. Among staff members I currently only see schulmpf being active all the time here and maybe 1-2 modertators. The community can't evolve if it is isolated from the world and is not maintained by its admins. Seriously, Modcraft has been getting worse and worse since 2012 in everything. Shoutbox removal, stupid rank equalizing, reduction of online and many more things.
I understand, and I'm fully up for promotion of modcraft in general, me personally I've been really busy RL crap lately but planning to getting back here soon as possible. Its just that the general WoW decline problem is not really modcraft related, not even sure how much can any of us do about it.
And I wasnt talking about modcraft admins support dunno about that really was just talking about the new site from a technical perspective
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Will you ever stop with the fucking ranks? Everyone who complains about that to this day has a fucking special colored name. Nobody who does not still have a colored name ever complained.
I agree on the shoutbox removal being not ideal, then again, let's see what a shoutbox is used for, on the example of mcnet:
- post about a broken link in some thread which can go in that thread
- crying about missing tools
- the shoutbox notification sound
- unanswered greeting
- retro porting possibility question
- unanswered greeting
I can't see any history, so that's only four days of content, but I honestly doubt there would be anything else in it. The modcraft shoutbox never had anything else in it either.
Please just stop complaining about the most stupid and the most insignificant issue of modcraft. This is not why modcraft is dead. It is just not the case.
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I agree schlumpf. I actually like the shoutbox for these reasons, though.
And yeah, colors has nothing to do with inactivity. It's just a bit of discomfort.
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If your goal is promotion, key is finding who is your 'competition' or partners or whatever and what they're doing, that would be AC-web or trinitycore or whoever. Just the other day I was trying to find modcraft or trinitycore on facebook there was neither, from one side I understand that both being specialized in WoW/modding but if you're goal here is promotion you should get on social networks and have active accounts there, get modders, 3D artists designers there with updates projects jobs stuff like that
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You're right. We've planned social media from the start. I haven't had time yet for it though.
Our social media buttons are already at the bottom of our page. Not functional yet.
Hard to get around to these sorts of things when you work 30 hours a week on top of uni.
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Will you ever stop with the fucking ranks? Everyone who complains about that to this day has a fucking special colored name. Nobody who does not still have a colored name ever complained.
I agree on the shoutbox removal being not ideal, then again, let's see what a shoutbox is used for, on the example of mcnet:
- post about a broken link in some thread which can go in that thread
- crying about missing tools
- the shoutbox notification sound
- unanswered greeting
- retro porting possibility question
- unanswered greeting
I can't see any history, so that's only four days of content, but I honestly doubt there would be anything else in it. The modcraft shoutbox never had anything else in it either.
Please just stop complaining about the most stupid and the most insignificant issue of modcraft. This is not why modcraft is dead. It is just not the case.
I just feel sorry for advanced artists, I still have my blue colour and I am okay with it. But the change itself was not necessary.
Speaking about shotbox, I too noticed that it does not have history. Though, I will look into it. The reasons why people don't talk there is because the site is actually new and have been officially on only for a couple of weeks. But except for all this notification sound testing flood and other stuff, we had good conversations in it.
I disagree with you on Modcraft shoutbox. When I came to Modcraft there were always people talking about things and it kept them alive on the page, so they were more active on the board too. I remember stoneharry, Vel, you, Eluo and other guys being there like every day. Am I wrong?
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and yea about the title color, gievf contributor title color, I was just offering them a new logo and premium themeforest themes for free, that cost dinero in the real world gringoo $$€ :P
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Stuff will be posted at both sites until one of them dies -- and i probably will be modcraft. Reputation, Shoutbox and a new design won't change the state of modding (http://www.model-changing.net/forums/topic/66-a-talk-about-expansions). That 800€ would better have been spent on supporting some developer or reverse engineer in doing/finding stuff for the community.
Let's say I have 1000€ in my pocket.
We would have to determine, aside from finding an available dev, what is the most useful task we should ask him to change the "state of modding".
I do think that's the tricky part. What brings normal, everyday people into mods ?
Maybe we should analyze how some game got their successful community, see what the end user gets in front of his eyes and what motivates him to try multiple mods. Then we could have an idea of the road to take.
That's because there isn't any player playing on anything modders make. Developers, modders are players first and there is nothing incredible they can play which would inspire them to start modding. They may think it's too hard.
The only way would be to make a private server with interesting stuff. But that's way harder than modding in local.
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This entire thread is beginning to look like advertising to me. Which I personally don't mind.
But on topic, I think it's good that you guys are trying to "refresh" the scene by taking matters into your own hands. I've seen your website a couple times already and imo both Modcraft and yours could do better in certain aspects. Sometimes simple & easy does it, unless you're main targets are kids.
Regardless and as Schlumpf already mentioned, none of what has been said or discussed has to do with the decline of activity within this area of the modding scene. There is no need to attribute things to the "problem"... And it's not a problem, you know. It's not a problem that there are no new faces in the scene. The biggest problem I see is people reworking the same concepts over and over again with projects. Years and years of pretty much "the same thing", it's boring.
I have seen here a few (very few) neat ideas that have potential. Take for example Stoneharry's recent project which is sort of like a single player dungeon mode, I think. It's cool and more people should join that project. Learn along the way and contribute to it, let it grow and then start on something else. But everyone's too busy with their own "unique stuff" and exactly that has been the problem here forever I think. Which is what divides the community into circle jerk groups. Take Maruum for example, you don't like it? Fine. Although at least, someone proposed the bigger project and put it on the table. What happened? Well...
So let's say that either Modcraft or you're site starts bringing in fresh modders into the scene again, what then? Sure, their first goal will be to learn about the scene, but then they'll want to start with their own stuff. And that's fine, but there is no sense of unity towards a common goal.
So my conclusion is that the one true problem with the scene is the lack of a common goal. To accomplish things as a whole community; Developed Tools, Completed Projects and Hunger for more creation.
Currently no one is offering this. Everyone's busy in rl but when you really enjoy the hobbies you have you make time for them... If it's worth it.
There's my two cents.
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This entire thread is beginning to look like advertising to me.
Well, uh... I thought this was pretty obvious. Nothing wrong with promoting something in the appropriate forum category.
Sometimes simple & easy does it, unless you're main targets are kids.
Do you really need to stoop to that level? :| https://youtu.be/nFwtbNPb6x8?t=5m30s (https://youtu.be/nFwtbNPb6x8?t=5m30s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Regardless and as Schlumpf already mentioned, none of what has been said or discussed has to do with the decline of activity within this area of the modding scene.
Schlumpf did not even say that, and I think you're wrong.
Everything else you've mentioned here is a topic of the best practices for WoW Modding, and is only slightly related to our website discussion. They're valid concerns, but they deserve an entirely new thread.
I'll emphasize once more, a new website is not a remedy it is merely a medicine.
Question: Can a new site bring in new people and indirectly improve the modding scene? Answer: Yes. Yes it can. Will it? We will see. But I think that's enough incentive to stop repeating what has already been said and saying that our ideas won't work.
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And why did you name it model-changing, if its just content from modcraft, meaning WoW related. Modcraft says WoW model chaning is to general, there's alot of things you should change imo.
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I dunno i think you would have to name that one modcraft aswell, be more active on social networks(although for promotion of WoW in general there isnt much you can do except build awsome private servers :P). [...]
According to this post I believe you think the new site initiative comes from original Modcraft owners.
That's wrong. In fact if I remember well that's because they didn't liked the idea of revamping the site (in this way, at least) that this initiative emerged. So there is no way they can just "keep" the name Modcraft, since they never got it at first.
In a perfect world, the best thing would be revamping Modcraft (if Modcraft has any issue), and promoting Modcraft to players and developers. I think everybody agrees with that. But I guess with conflicts it was not possible, hence the new site.
Please fix my words if I'm wrong.
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And why did you name it model-changing, if its just content from modcraft, meaning WoW related. Modcraft says WoW model chaning is to general, there's alot of things you should change imo.
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I dunno i think you would have to name that one modcraft aswell, be more active on social networks(although for promotion of WoW in general there isnt much you can do except build awsome private servers :P). [...]
According to this post I believe you think the new site initiative comes from original Modcraft owners.
That's wrong. In fact if I remember well that's because they didn't liked the idea of revamping the site (in this way, at least) that this initiative emerged. So there is no way they can just "keep" the name Modcraft, since they never got it at first.
In a perfect world, the best thing would be revamping Modcraft (if Modcraft has any issue), and promoting Modcraft to players and developers. I think everybody agrees with that. But I guess with conflicts it was not possible, hence the new site.
Please fix my words if I'm wrong.
Yeah, basically, the original idea was to make community better. We offered Steff help, he refused. Then we obviously could do nothing to make this site better if its main admin does not want to change anything. He said he is working on a new site, new domain name himself. Well, neither of these things seems to exist now. So, I think the reason for us making an entirely new site is pretty obvious, I think.
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According to this post I believe you think the new site initiative comes from original Modcraft owners.
That's wrong. In fact if I remember well that's because they didn't liked the idea of revamping the site (in this way, at least) that this initiative emerged. So there is no way they can just "keep" the name Modcraft, since they never got it at first.
In a perfect world, the best thing would be revamping Modcraft (if Modcraft has any issue), and promoting Modcraft to players and developers. I think everybody agrees with that. But I guess with conflicts it was not possible, hence the new site.
Please fix my words if I'm wrong.
You're right I did think at first it was a new modcraft realized later its a different site, but the first post was kinda misguiding in that way, but still I think you rushed a few things. Name model changing, wowmods wowmodding or something would be more appropriate, and was looking at the website again this morning that slider lol, you have it on every single page I got on a profile page and it was even there.. I just cant belive 4 web designers said that was a good idea. You wont find 1 website on the internet with something like that, but I dont want to sound negative I support you and the whole initiave
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I agree the slider is a bit big (but not a bad idea, just resizing it would improve a lot of readability on smaller screens), and the name is a bit too specific, but I don't have a better idea myself so I won't complain. things like wowmodding would be too generic to create an identity on the Web.
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You're right I did think at first it was a new modcraft realized later its a different site, but the first post was kinda misguiding in that way, but still I think you rushed a few things. Name model changing, wowmods wowmodding or something would be more appropriate, and was looking at the website again this morning that slider lol, you have it on every single page I got on a profile page and it was even there.. I just cant belive 4 web designers said that was a good idea. You wont find 1 website on the internet with something like that, but I dont want to sound negative I support you and the whole initiave
We really didn't rush anything at all though. It took us 5 months to decide on model-changing.net. It went from craftymods, to bnet-dev, to model-changing. The first one was never meant to be taken seriously so don't judge :P
But the point is, we would brainstorm; like every week. Every one of us would spam our chat coming up with names. None of them stuck. We even created two public threads on our forums requesting website names. Nobody ever showed up with a decent idea. And there were TONs of ideas, but they all sucked. When we decided on bnet-dev, we actually had someone who came on and was furious about how shitty it was. This sunk in.
In truth, our website has actually been ready to release for 2 months now. What held us back for so long was a name. We didn't have a name that we were proud of and felt comfortable with. Eventually we decided on Model Changing.
And I understand your concerns, it's a weird name, but it's not meant literally. It's a legacy term taken from the lore of WoW Modding. People like MC Addicts (Model Changing Addicts) were the founders of this passion. There is also Hyakki's French modding forum called MC Revolution.
There's only so many different website possibilities using the terms WoW, Modding, Mods, and so on. They're all super generic as spik96 said, or they're cheesy sounding like Adjective WoW for a private server name. And if you don't choose one of these generic names, you at least need to choose something that is relevant enough for people to recognize the product or service that you offer. Model Changing fits perfectly.
Moving on to concerns about the slider: Our initial plan was to only have it on the front page. We originally had a bridged system using WordPress and phpBB3.1 which we eventually trashed because it was garbage. However we made every attempt to give the forum a good design without using the slider, and it just didn't work.
The entire page would jump around each time you click through the navigation, because adding/removing the slider depending on the page also increases/decreases the page's size by like 50%. It was an awful clunky system. and we wanted a smooth and consistent feel to our website. So you know everything was made to work in unity. Also, since our navigation is tied to the very top of the page, it left us little to no choice. There just aren't many good forum designs that involve having the navigation at the top. Modcraft for example has a banner before the navigation.
I understand you have a lot of strong opinions especially coming from a web designer perspective. But I assure you we're not toddlers drooling over each other. We spent months on this and carefully considered every possibility while working with our initial plans. Your solution seems to be to throw 6 months of work away, switch to a different CMS, and get a free theme from the satanic cash-farm that people call Theme Forest. I'm sorry... but no... That's just insane.
Let's put this on record: We really love our website name, and we love our slider as well. These two things make up a large portion of our website's identity and are the characteristics that we've grown quite fond of over the past few months. We will not change them. If enough people dislike the slider, we'll see about adding a button to hide it.
I appreciate you wanting to avoid negativity. Let's do that, please. Everyone has differences ;)
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Imho, "modcraft.net" would be much better. "Model changing" suggests a website dedicated to modelling, which does not include serverside scripting, world editing, etc. Also, unlike the new website, Modcraft's design and colour scheme are kind of cosy.There's just too much blue on mc.net and it feels cold.
Also, regarding the moding community part. You might not take my opinion seriously, since Im a comparatively new user and havent really contributed to the website, but I'll still say: I think that what scares off newcomers is that there are too much "showoff" and "pay for my work/help" posts and topics, instead of "tutorial" and "release". Yes, everyone needs money but such a scientific community will not progress if its only driven by profit.
Another point will be explained in the following little diagram:
How modding should work:
<====== ======>
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Modding Official WoW
How it actually works:
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<====== ||
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Modding Official WoW
Sitting on the old rusty and ugly WotLK just because its comfortable is not at all a way to progress. If the modding community should develop, it should start from modding itself.
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Well, we can't steal the name Modcraft. Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.
Also, the reasoning behind "Model Changing" has already been explained here.
Though, I agree with the other things you said. Sitting on Wrath isn't necessarily good.
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Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.
Why so?
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Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.
Why so?
I guess in 2015 the biggest modding community between the games ending in "craft" (Minecraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft) is clearly the Minecraft community. Therefore people would expect this to be this kind of website, if you were to say "Modcraft".
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Nor would I want it now that Minecraft exists.
Why so?
I guess in 2015 the biggest modding community between the games ending in "craft" (Minecraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft) is clearly the Minecraft community. Therefore people would expect this to be this kind of website, if you were to say "Modcraft".
Completely agree.
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Sorry did I say advertisement? I meant to say recruitment.
I very much dislike how people always have to be defensive or corrective and you are like that I believe.
But like I was trying to say, regardless, good luck with the website in all honesty.
Take it or leave it lol seriously
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Sitting on the old rusty and ugly WotLK just because its comfortable is not at all a way to progress. If the modding community should develop, it should start from modding itself.
give this man a medal [insert putin jpg here]
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All I know about this 'new website' is the following:
Since months their owners make guerilla marketing and try to steal Modcraft users. They contact people here by PM and Skype and try to make bad mood against Steff and Schlumpf from Modcraft.
In the beginning I assured my support for these young people and liked the ideas for a restart in the modding scene.
I gave them in their forum in a friendly manner a lot of detailed hints and tips about website issues, CSS fixes, RSS stuff and shared my thougths about their old domain name which was not optimal in my opinion. I told them point by point why I suggest to choose another name. I offered them my help in German translation of some part of the website.
All what I got from them was blaming me as an idiot who doesn't know anything about everything. They spit on my public forum posts in way I never saw in the last 20 years. They blamed me personally in Skype. And they kick me out of their community with really verbally harassing words. I was really very very shocked about such a childish behaviour.
After looking few weeks later I have seen that they have implemented all my proposals and even changed their domain name.
Of course there was no 'Thank you' nor any excuses.
Go away Milly and shame over you.
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All I know about this 'new website' is the following:
Since months their owners make guerilla marketing and try to steal Modcraft users. They contact people here by PM and Skype and try to make bad mood against Steff and Schlumpf from Modcraft.
In the beginning I assured my support for these young people and liked the ideas for a restart in the modding scene.
I gave them in their forum in a friendly manner a lot of detailed hints and tips about website issues, CSS fixes, RSS stuff and shared my opinion about their old domain name which was not optimal in my mind. I told them point by point why I suggest to choose another name. I offered them my help in German translation of some part of the website.
All what I got from them was blaming me as an idiot who doesn't know anything about everything. They spit on my public forum posts in way I never saw in the last 20 years. They blamed me personally in Skype. And they kick me out of their community with really verbally harassing words. I was really very very shocked about such a childish behaviour.
After looking few weeks later I have seen that they have implemented all my proposals and even changed their domain name.
Of course there was no 'Thank you' nor any excuses.
Go away Milly and shame over you.
First off, I don't agree with Steff on many things including WoW Modding but he is a cool guy and has been my friend for many months now. He has even helped me with learning some German. Schlumpf hates me, sure, but I don't hate him. We pick fun with him often, but what does that have to do with this website? Nothing.
And I'd like to assure anyone who reads this, let it be known that Magnus is a lunatic. I don't know if it is an English language barrier or not, but when he came onto our site he started saying extremely hurtful and offensive things to us, not in the manner that he described.
Yes he made valid suggestions, but in such heartless ways. We told him we appreciate the feedback but that he needs to understand that we're not even in Beta phase yet. And still, he criticizes relentlessly in a very impolite manner. Eventually he goes too far and I ask him to stop being so fucking negative.
He flips out, starts calling me as some heartless crazed fool, just as he is doing here. He is wrong. I am so tired of this man thinking that he is better than everyone and more intelligent just because he's 50-some years old. Just keep on calling us kids and young people. It really shows your character.
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Be careful Milly, I have the full Skype log what you have discussed with me and in which way. ;-)
Especially what you told about your good old friend Steff.
However I'm happy that you have followed my lunatic proposals and improved your website and project name/domain in that way I suggested.
I wish you all the best with your new project. I think people can get their own impression about the language you are using here.
BTW: And of course the whole world is hating you. Not only Schlumpf, keep serious, please :-)
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All I know about this 'new website' is the following:
Since months their owners make guerilla marketing and try to steal Modcraft users. They contact people here by PM and Skype and try to make bad mood against Steff and Schlumpf from Modcraft.
In the beginning I assured my support for these young people and liked the ideas for a restart in the modding scene.
I gave them in their forum in a friendly manner a lot of detailed hints and tips about website issues, CSS fixes, RSS stuff and shared my thougths about their old domain name which was not optimal in my opinion. I told them point by point why I suggest to choose another name. I offered them my help in German translation of some part of the website.
All what I got from them was blaming me as an idiot who doesn't know anything about everything. They spit on my public forum posts in way I never saw in the last 20 years. They blamed me personally in Skype. And they kick me out of their community with really verbally harassing words. I was really very very shocked about such a childish behaviour.
After looking few weeks later I have seen that they have implemented all my proposals and even changed their domain name.
Of course there was no 'Thank you' nor any excuses.
Go away Milly and shame over you.
Oh, that's a really nice one here. Let me clean something out for you and other people you have possibly managed to embed your crippled ideas into.
Are you talking about marketing? Since when are we trying to sell something or make money in some other way? We indeed contacted people to let them know about the site and to collect valueable opinions. Steal modcraft users? Users are not sheep, but people. They can take decisions on their own and choose where they want to stay. We are just presenting our project here. All I've personally tried to make bad mood of is Modcraft and the recent decisions taken there by the team. That's the point of our project to offer soemthing better, you know. Nothing personal against those guys mentioned.
Oh, my favourite part. Your messages are always full of agism. You call people young or kids without knowing them personally, for no reason, and trying to make yourself look superior. I am not a doctor, but in such cases I advice to go visit some psychoterapist to help you figuring out your problems with younger people.
Childish behaviour? You created a few topics on the board criticizing some aspects in a DEMANDING way. I am not against suggestions, requests and other polite forms of communication. When someone starts to demand. so I feel like "he is my boss and I am doing his job", I personally can't resist to explain that to him. There is no way you could expect any polite response to your threads without showing even a bit of respect to other people. I made an effort and replyed you normally on the board, but that's not what I actually thought.
No one has banned you from the site or kicked you out. You did on your own. You messaged me asking ro remove your messages and profile from the site which I did not perform 100%. I moved only messages because they were horrible.
If someone is interested to see what we are talking about, the conversation is still available in the depths of the forum graveyard.
I want to apologize to people who are not involved in this for reading this wall of text. But as you see, the situation requires that.
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Be careful Milly, I have the full Skype log what you have discussed with me and in which way. ;-)
Especially what you told about your good old friend Steff.
However I'm happy that you have followed my lunatic proposals and improved your website and project name/domain in that way I suggested.
I wish you all the best with your new project. I think people can get their own impression about the language you are using here.
BTW: And of course the whole world is hating you. Not only Schlumpf, keep serious, please :-)
If they exist, I honestly don't remember. And my Skype doesn't have logs on it, so.
Anyway thank you for the kind words. I'm sure that everyone in the world hates me.
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All I've personally tried to make bad mood of is Modcraft and the recent decisions taken there by the team.
I don't give a shit about all your drama, but if this is your plan, then please, just take your business elsewhere and stop visiting this site.
and I really highly dislike you
as said in a plethora of PMs you made with the only goal to piss me off. It was a huge mistake ever unbanning you.
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Well schlumpf, when I said that I meant it. But my opinion has changed.
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All I've personally tried to make bad mood of is Modcraft and the recent decisions taken there by the team.
I don't give a shit about all your drama, but if this is your plan, then please, just take your business elsewhere and stop visiting this site.
I think I used the wrong words. Well, I actually took those from Magnus. I just meant that all I could do is to speak about disadvantages modcraft has.
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@Skarn
You are not right, Skarn, I told about young people, not even used the word kids. Please, if you cite me, than do it right.
In the beginning I assured my support for these young people and liked the ideas for a restart in the modding scene.
And I told 'young people' because I was chatting about 3-4 hours with Milly in Skype and know his age. He IS young and it would be a pleasure to me to work with people in this age. I do it every day, by the way. There is absolutely nothing negative in young people, vice versa.
About the other things you tell ... I let it stay as it is. Everyone can read here my posts and can decide if even one of these posts was unfriendly or not helpful. At least I tried to do my best to help where ever I can and my limited time allows me.
And about marketing ....
I'm not against marketing. But marketing is advertising your own products on the marketplace. Normally it's not allowed to advertise products or services on the competitors place or to contact offensive customers/users of the competitors. However that's my personal opinion, I'm not owner of Modcraft.
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I'm civil as long as you're civil Magnus. You helped us out a bit, yes. Thanks, I guess? We just didn't appreciate the way you did and we got pissed about it. I don't know why that = war.
I agree that advertising on a competitor's website shouldn't be allowed. But if Modcraft is our competitor, and they have a rules page, and that page says nothing about advertising, then can you blame us? Also not to mention that posts like iMithos's was allowed to live for weeks. In any case we contacted only a few people here. We have huge Skype groups as well.
By the way, I downloaded a cool program that lets me view my Skype chat logs. I found our conversation, and the only things I read on my part are nice things about Steff. I said he is an okay guy. And I said I was a little upset with him after he yelled at us. That's all I can see here.
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I have exchanged a few conversations with both Milly and Skarn and never had any problem with those two. I also never had any reason to dislike you Magnus. So the question is... dafuq is happening here?
Anyway, I am quite sure about 2 things.
1. this stupid public personal flame war leads to nothing, and it only puts actually BOTH sites to pools of shitstorm where noone wants to be around.
2. there is only one person who can say what is allowed here Magnus. By trying to position yourself to his place you manage to nearly confirm some Milly's statements. Its quite ironic that you want to lecture anyone what is not OK here, but by your behaviour here you have started what I know Steff never liked to see - a (public) flame war. Please, think about it before you respond. There are things called PMs.
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That's why I wrote explicit:
However that's my personal opinion, I'm not owner of Modcraft.
And telling opinions is one part why forum exists. As long as they are declared as personal opinion.
BTW: I also had different nice and long conversations with both of them. They both asked me for help. I shared my technical (and only technical) thoughts with them in a forum. There was no reason to react like that.
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They both asked me for help. I shared my technical (and only technical) thoughts with them in a forum. There was no reason to react like that.
Well in that sense, technical thoughts are entirely logic. And logic lacks emotion. You said what you wanted to say, but did so in an emotionless and demanding way. Logos and Ethos are nothing without Pathos.
I can't make you understand the way I feel. But I'd at least ask that you respect it. I was offended, Skarn was offended, Axel was offended. Everyone was upset about it. It doesn't make us bad people.
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That's why I wrote explicit:
However that's my personal opinion, I'm not owner of Modcraft.
And telling opinions is one part why forum exists. As long as they are declared as personal opinion.
BTW: I also had different nice and long conversations with both of them. They both asked me for help. I shared my technical (and only technical) thoughts with them in a forum. There was no reason to react like that.
It seems I have missed sentence you have quoted, my apologies. But most of my message still applies anyway.
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You all done arguing?
If you want to go to the new site, then go.
If you want to stay, then stay.
If you want to use both, then do that.
Nothing else matters.
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Milly, speaking about CSS, RSS, domain names (and may other technical stuff I already have forgotten) is seldom connected to any personal emotional feeling against somebody on my side.
Why should I get about such things in personal touch with anybody ?
If it's true what Skarn is telling that you have archived my postings, please reread it once more in a quite and moderate mood.
I'm absolutely sure you will see nothing else than technical stuff. Either I proposed something or I have asked what the reasons are of some decisions that are made at that time. I never was demanding, why I should ? It's not my project, nor I'm paying for it .
And the fact that you followed some of my proposals proofs in my eyes that they was helpful. I'm glad to see that.
Even if you have may misunderstand some words of my text lacks to my bad English you have seen that ALL postings had only one goal: To improve your project, to make it better for the target you have told me in Skype.
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When I say emotion, I don't mean it personally. It's like the difference between abruptly saying "No" and politely saying "No thanks". It again goes back to my suspicion of language barrier. But these things can quickly become extremely offensive especially when the internet lacks tone and body language when communicating with others. Like you said, it may be your bad English. And it may be cultural differences. I don't really know.
And okay, your advices did help. At least one that I can think of, which is the domain name. Really I was never fully comfortable with it though because it was chosen mostly out of desperation. You sort of gave the extra push. Anyway thanks. But there's no need for bloodshed. I'm not arguing anymore.
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Excuse me, that I didn't had any time to add some poems and some pink hearts around my postings. :)
I thought it's enough to point you to some important technical details, like project name and initiate a fruitful discussion there.
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I was about to lock this thread, it has reached the point of no return.
But there is no point, as you will most likely create another thread someday and continue with your shit drama. There is also no point in re-banning you because you'll just create another account and start throwing shit everywhere.
I am not the type of person to be this way and Steff knows it, but I can no longer consider what you have to say, do or think as a person so my attitude towards you is disgusting naturally.
Please, if you will not leave this site, then at least do not create shit drama on threads. Go outside, start a fight with someone and let them beat the shit out of you, maybe you'll become a man because you're acting like a little girl.
I can confirm what Magnus said. You try to turn people against Steff/Schlumpf talking crap about them... Be a man and accept it. Now it's public knowledge... We can at least be comfortable that people can see the other side of your one-sided point of views.
You are the type of person that is a plague. Have a nice day.
Edit: I'll just edit my post since the thread is now locked.
I forgot to mention that I read this same thread on your website. Question, why is this thread "The nicer version" and why is the one on your website more shit-talking about Modcraft? Hmm... Questions questions.
You brought this on yourself boy.
Ok, I'll accept that. I don't "have the right to mod here" lol... I can also say, you don't have the right to steal what others worked on for years and years, which is: Building a community, taking the glory for yourself telling people 'it's for the better of the community'... Hehe fucking weasel
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Do you even read the things that I've said here? I'm not the one causing drama! People are stopping by and shitting all over this thread because they don't like it. Me and Magnus came to peaceful terms just now and you're the one who has to come back and re-fuel the drama. I'm merely standing my ground.
YOU are the problem. And fuck you, I was never banned to begin with. I was only given warning. I don't know why schlumpf said that. And no, I would not create more accounts. And no I would not make another thread. Quit assuming such things about me. You do not know me. You have no right to be mod on this site.
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I've locked the thread at Milly's request.
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To be honest, I do not agree on locking this post. People are voicing their opinions, and this is the right place for it.
<unlocked>
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Locking this topic viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9939 (http://modcraft.io/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9939" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is a little bit against the rights of a free speech, isn't it ?
Sometime things have to be told. But they don't need to put in stone.
Me(Milly) and Magnus came to peaceful terms just now
I take this as an apology and accept it.
However locking a topic in a continuous discussion so fast is imho not the right way.
I vote to delete the whole topic (incl. this). The participating users had their fun. What has been said was said. There is no reason to let such things to stay for the rest of the life.
Personally I'm surprised that it's allowed here to advertise a competitors website. So I vote to delete the whole topic incl. the opening post.
I feel sorry that the small community is split in two parts in this way but still wish the new project all the best.
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I agree, it shouldn't need locked. But there's a certain line of ruthless flaming and dehumanizing that you just shouldn't cross. What's been said just now is by far the cruelest and most fucked up thing I have ever read on Modcraft.
Also, MountainLion, this thread is identical on both websites. So I don't see what you're saying, sorry.
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Locking this topic viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9939 (http://modcraft.io/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9939" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is a little bit against the rights of a free speech, isn't it ?
Sometime things have to be told. But they don't need to put in stone.
Me(Milly) and Magnus came to peaceful terms just now
I take this as an apology and accept it.
However locking a topic in a continuous discussion so fast is imho not the right way.
I vote to delete the whole topic (incl. this). The participating users had their fun. What has been said was said. There is no reason to let such things to stay for the rest of the life.
Personally I'm surprised that it's allowed here to advertise a competitors website. So I vote to delete the whole topic incl. the opening post.
I feel sorry that the small community is split in two parts in this way but still wish the new project all the best.
As much as I agree with you, we cannot just delete things. I also wish the new project good luck. I don't think it was the best way of going about the whole thing but that's just me. You had your fun as well.
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As much as I agree with you, we cannot just delete things.
For technical reason ? Or because of a kind of forum politics ?
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For technical reason ? Or because of a kind of forum politics ?
Because people spent a lot of time and effort to post their opinions here. It's not fair to ruin it for everyone just because there are a few people who started a flame war. Though in the end it is up to the admins.
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Guys, just to sum up everything up, let's discuss here things related to the initial post of this topic from this moment. This topic is dedicated to the new community project. It is made for letting people know that it exists and sharing opinions. The forum is not a place to argue about our personal stuff, we can do it somewhere else. People who might be itnerested in the actual topic of the thread might not even know any of us and are certainly not interested in reading personal arguments.
I also think that it is a good decision to unlock the thread. Closed threads piss me off.
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I agree, it shouldn't need locked. But there's a certain line of ruthless flaming and dehumanizing that you just shouldn't cross. What's been said just now is by far the cruelest and most fucked up thing I have ever read on Modcraft.
Yes, it is. But honestly both of you, Milly and Skarn, you don't feel the way you was posting here was forcing that ?
And take this as a funny sidenote:
Skarn was blaming me I would do agism. To be honest I didn't know that word in English, I had to translate it first. Even in German (Altersdiskriminierung) I find it funny.
Wasn't it you both that was telling about old guys, 50+ old ? As far as I know here are quite a lot of well reputated users 40+ and even 50+. Isn't blaming that people not also agism ? No answer needed ;-)
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I agree, it shouldn't need locked. But there's a certain line of ruthless flaming and dehumanizing that you just shouldn't cross. What's been said just now is by far the cruelest and most fucked up thing I have ever read on Modcraft.
Yes, it is. But honestly both of you, Milly and Skarn, you don't feel the way you was posting here was forcing that ?
And take this as a funny sidenote:
Skarn was blaming me I would do agism. To be honest I didn't know that word in English, I had to translate it first. Even in German (Altersdiskriminierung) I find it funny.
Wasn't it you both that was telling about old guys, 50+ old ? As far as I know here are quite a lot of well reputated users 40+ and even 50+. Isn't blaming that people not also agism ?
I won't answer your first question because I don't feel anything now. I am awake for too long to analyze things now.
Speaking about, the second one, agism is pretty much the same thing as e.g. racism but based on age criterion. I am not sure what you are asking... though, I usually have no problem with people older or younger than me, but if I did somewhere, I apologize. Again I ask not to start personal converstations in this thread because nobody but us cares about them. It can be very well discussed in PMs or somewhere.
Edit: Did not notice your "No asnwer needed" but anyway.
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This thread anyway lost its focus, that's why I vote to delete most of the stuff, may even everything.
I know after translation what agism is. I wanted to point out that this works in both directions. Think about what you wrote just some hours ago here. ;-)
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All I know about this 'new website' is the following:
Since months their owners make guerilla marketing and try to steal Modcraft users. They contact people here by PM and Skype and try to make bad mood against Steff and Schlumpf from Modcraft.
In the beginning I assured my support for these young people and liked the ideas for a restart in the modding scene.
I gave them in their forum in a friendly manner a lot of detailed hints and tips about website issues, CSS fixes, RSS stuff and shared my opinion about their old domain name which was not optimal in my mind. I told them point by point why I suggest to choose another name. I offered them my help in German translation of some part of the website.
All what I got from them was blaming me as an idiot who doesn't know anything about everything. They spit on my public forum posts in way I never saw in the last 20 years. They blamed me personally in Skype. And they kick me out of their community with really verbally harassing words. I was really very very shocked about such a childish behaviour.
After looking few weeks later I have seen that they have implemented all my proposals and even changed their domain name.
Of course there was no 'Thank you' nor any excuses.
Go away Milly and shame over you.
First off, I don't agree with Steff on many things including WoW Modding but he is a cool guy and has been my friend for many months now. He has even helped me with learning some German. Schlumpf hates me, sure, but I don't hate him. We pick fun with him often, but what does that have to do with this website? Nothing.
And I'd like to assure anyone who reads this, let it be known that Magnus is a lunatic. I don't know if it is an English language barrier or not, but when he came onto our site he started saying extremely hurtful and offensive things to us, not in the manner that he described.
Yes he made valid suggestions, but in such heartless ways. We told him we appreciate the feedback but that he needs to understand that we're not even in Beta phase yet. And still, he criticizes relentlessly in a very impolite manner. Eventually he goes too far and I ask him to stop being so fucking negative.
He flips out, starts calling me as some heartless crazed fool, just as he is doing here. He is wrong. I am so tired of this man thinking that he is better than everyone and more intelligent just because he's 50-some years old. Just keep on calling us kids and young people. It really shows your character.
This is an example of you creating drama when you should instead think before speaking OR even speaking about it at all... But Milly always has to clarify things to the point it becomes a shitfest, as far as I've noticed. A way I would personally go about things when they start to go wrong is: "I'm sorry I don't see it that way but let's get back to topic and avoid a shitfest shall we?". And you avoid becoming the asshat of the class. Just saying. This message is entirely directed to Milly.
p.s. Also if I'm wrong about the threads not being the exact 100% same I don't remember it has been a while since I read them. I don't know if you edited them at some point. I don't care though.
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You realize though that the thing you're doing right now is the same thing you accuse me of? Being stubborn, defensive, and always wanting to clarify your point of view? You keep coming back always wanting the last laugh. You just don't stop. Yet you accuse me of the exact same thing. Is it okay for you to do it, but not me?
Please, respect the fact that everyone else here has agreed to move on and stop flaming. This is ridiculous.
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You realize though that the thing you're doing right now is the same thing you accuse me of? Being stubborn, defensive, and always wanting to clarify your point of view? You keep coming back always wanting the last laugh. You just don't stop. Yet you accuse me of the exact same thing. Is it okay for you to do it, but not me?
Please, respect the fact that everyone else here has agreed to move on and stop flaming. This is ridiculous.
Oh but of course I realize this... I hope you can see how fucking annoying it is to be this way. Awesome, let's move on! ;)
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Oh but of course I realize this... I hope you can see how fucking annoying it is to be this way. Awesome, let's move on! ;)
Believe me I won't deny for a second that I'm stubborn as a mule. Glad we got that out of the way.
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:-) And than somebody fucks me when I'm telling that some reactions of some people are not totally mature :-)
Ok, unfortunately I have now to go to sleep early. Old guys, you know ;-)
I vote again to delete tomorrow most of this discussion. There is no reason to let the whole world participate in this private discussion.
If it is for some reasons not possible to delete some or all posts I vote as follows:
Regarding the X'Mas time all posters (incl. me) delete their own posts by EDIT and replace it by a nice X'Mas card, screen shot, poem or something else. Take it as a punishment ;-)
Good night.
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:-) And than somebody fucks me when I'm telling that some reactions of some people are not totally mature :-)
Ok, unfortunately I have now to go to sleep early. Old guys, you know ;-)
I vote again to delete tomorrow most of this discussion. There is no reason to let the whole world participate in this private discussion.
If it is for some reasons not possible to delete some or all posts I vote as follows:
Regarding the X'Mas time all posters (incl. me) delete their own posts by EDIT and replace it by a nice X'Mas card, screen shot, poem or something else. Take it as a punishment ;-)
Good night.
well buddy, this isn´t a private discussion.
and you did post it for all the world to see ;)
I on the other hand request that mountainlion be demoted, I find him extremely offensive and find his way of communication aggresive, defensive, childish and most of all not suited for his role as a moderator. He starts flame wars wherever he goes and even his recruitment thread got people into a "fight".
I also don't really see which particular set of skills made him get this rank and I have never even seen anything he has made.
The only thing he does here is whine and being annoying.
thanks.
(http://m.memegen.com/46bx57.jpg)
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:-) And than somebody fucks me when I'm telling that some reactions of some people are not totally mature :-)
Ok, unfortunately I have now to go to sleep early. Old guys, you know ;-)
I vote again to delete tomorrow most of this discussion. There is no reason to let the whole world participate in this private discussion.
If it is for some reasons not possible to delete some or all posts I vote as follows:
Regarding the X'Mas time all posters (incl. me) delete their own posts by EDIT and replace it by a nice X'Mas card, screen shot, poem or something else. Take it as a punishment ;-)
Good night.
well buddy, this isn´t a private discussion.
and you did post it for all the world to see ;)
I on the other hand request that mountainlion be demoted, I find him extremely offensive and find his way of communication aggresive, defensive, childish and most of all not suited for his role as a moderator. He starts flame wars wherever he goes and even his recruitment thread got people into a "fight".
I also don't really see which particular set of skills made him get this rank and I have never even seen anything he has made.
The only thing he does here is whine and being annoying.
thanks.
(http://m.memegen.com/46bx57.jpg)
"I'm sorry I don't see it that way but let's get back to topic and avoid a shitfest shall we?". And you avoid becoming the asshat of the class. Just saying.
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I on the other hand request that mountainlion be demoted, I find him extremely offensive and find his way of communication aggresive, defensive, childish and most of all not suited for his role as a moderator. He starts flame wars wherever he goes and even his recruitment thread got people into a "fight".
I also don't really see which particular set of skills made him get this rank and I have never even seen anything he has made.
Agreed with that. MountainLion take many things as personal and acts in a disgusting way. Not the way that moderator should act. Even schlumpf didn't act that way. I find schlumpfs posts some kind funny and honest most of the time. But post of MountainLion are acid for me. And I don't need such moderator.
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Guys, I kindly ask you again to cease personal discussions here. This is not a thread to discuss people, this is a thread dedicated to the new community idea. Please avoid that kind of off-topic because it causes conflicts.
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Guys, you can always create a topic made for that purpouse and discuss problem with MountainLion as mod there.
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"MountainLion take many things as personal"
I do also. Thats why I simple dont write here.
It could be so nice if people would invest energy in projects as they do in such stupid discussions :)
My points.
- 2 boards perhaps split audiance > not good for scene.
- Why people not just asked to improof MC instead of creat new things. If you are a part of an community you help there and don´t create a new one.
- Main problem of scene > No good working tools and real motivated people who fulfill promises.
All I will say to this discussion. Now to something completly different >> work for modding scene. Currently coding on neo.
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2 boards perhaps split audiance > not good for scene.
What I told. However that's life. But may better 2 communities than one with some angry people inside.
Why people not just asked to improof MC instead of creat new things. If you are a part of an community you help there and don´t create a new one.
Well, afaik there was several attempts to help or to improve. Behind the curtain and also in some posts here. Even I offered some help. But the answer was always Thanks, but No, Thanks.
Main problem of scene > No good working tools and real motivated people who fulfill promises.
That's everywhere, not only in this scene. P-Server, Core Development, Modding, all the same. Also outside of WoW related projects.
1 is working, 10 stay around and give 'good' remarks. :-)
As for me I can say:
In a technical forum like this I'm looking for solutions and if I don't find it already by using the board search I hope somebody can answer my question.
Modcraft fits always this requirements. The wiki and the forum contains tons of exciting information in good quality. Collected over about 10 years !
And the community is very helpful, friendly and fast in replying my questions.
I'm also not really interested in gimmicks like the color of usernames nor any of the modern social board 'features' like credits, medals, bonus, ranks, likes, blah blah blah.
I got here what I need. Thanks for that.
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"MountainLion take many things as personal"
I do also. Thats why I simple dont write here.
It could be so nice if people would invest energy in projects as they do in such stupid discussions :)
My points.
- 2 boards perhaps split audiance > not good for scene.
- Why people not just asked to improof MC instead of creat new things. If you are a part of an community you help there and don´t create a new one.
- Main problem of scene > No good working tools and real motivated people who fulfill promises.
All I will say to this discussion. Now to something completly different >> work for modding scene. Currently coding on neo.
1. Yeah, you are right that split audience is not good for the scene. Though, most our users still get here. Including me and other stuff members. The only thing I don't do is not posting my tutorials or releases here as it kills the point then. But I sitll help people.
2. Hm, well, we did. Even before starting the site and many times after. I remember we also proposed you to merge into one project aka improving the community, you rejected. So, well, we tried. Then the explanation is obvious: You can't change something that does not want to be changed. That's why we got working on the new community.
3. You are absolutely right about those problems. There is no motivated people to dev tools. Why? New people who might be interested come to Modcraft and see nothing useful there. It is hard to find some things for beginners. The only good improvement in this aspect that I see is merging all showoffs together, so people can get the impression of what modders are capable of and get motivated to dev tools for them. Though, our way of doing it (user galleries) is still better in my opinion. More presentable.
The whole point of the project is to move modding forward. Here I won't simply be allowed to do what I consider good for the good communityt to exist. That's it ;)
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Mainly ... theres a diference between MC-ModCraft and MC-Model Changing that is in community and if you know those ppl you would know why
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I agree with Steff. I think the right thing to do is help an already established community.
I offered myself to help Modcraft. I don't know who has offered their help, but perhaps a thread should be created for people to sign up and join the cause? ;)
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Hm, well, we did. <<< Nope. Noone ever came to me and asked me .. hey could I help you technical manage the Board. And creat as a Member a second community and then ask the other existing one to join... I business you call this hostile acquisition :)
But let it end here. If people like the new site I am happy if they get there and feel good.
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Nope. Noone ever came to me and asked me .. hey could I help you technical manage the Board.
In this we differ, Steff.
I and Skarn have both asked. The answer was No thanks, not necessary.
The difference between me and Skarn is: I have accepted that and I'm still happy with Modcraft while Skarn and Milly want to split the community.
I really wish them all the best on their way and a Merry Christmas.
I just have some doubts that the right way to found a new friendly community is to call community members as lunatic, psychopathic rassists ;-)
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This topic has been online for quite some time now. First I wanted to keep my hands out of this but there are a few things I want to say. First of all most of the people would agree that the small community we have become does not need 2 websites. I understand that the second page was created to be a better Modcraft. You can deny it but thats how it is. Its your opinion of how things should be. They have alot of nice content and this page really could use some polish. But this does not mean the second page is in any way better than the first. To be honest a new look and stuff like galleries dont make it a better thing. What we really lack and i know this has been discussed several times is fresh blood in the community and this new page wont help with that. I took a visit to the site and felt like its been nearly as "confusing" as this site. Nonetheless I think there owners will not agree in "reuniting" and therefore we will probably see which community makes the race. Because on the longterm we are to view people to really maintain 2 sites.
I hope anyone will find my opinion usfull and good morning Modcraft!
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This topic has been online for quite some time now. First I wanted to keep my hands out of this but there are a few things I want to say. First of all most of the people would agree that the small community we have become does not need 2 websites. I understand that the second page was created to be a better Modcraft. You can deny it but thats how it is. Its your opinion of how things should be. They have alot of nice content and this page really could use some polish. But this does not mean the second page is in any way better than the first. To be honest a new look and stuff like galleries dont make it a better thing. What we really lack and i know this has been discussed several times is fresh blood in the community and this new page wont help with that. I took a visit to the site and felt like its been nearly as "confusing" as this site. Nonetheless I think there owners will not agree in "reuniting" and therefore we will probably see which community makes the race. Because on the longterm we are to view people to really maintain 2 sites.
I hope anyone will find my opinion usfull and good morning Modcraft!
Yeah, I actually agree at some points but in general... The point of our site is to attract new and more people which has already happened. We got several users who were not doing modding before. We were and maybe are (it is up to Milly to decide) happy to merge but Steff refused. Of course, we suggested working on a new site as a new platform because merging things into that site kills the entire idea, it won't help anything. This site (I mean Modcraft) is too outdated to be a fully functioning community now.
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Hi guys, I've been ignoring this thread because I don't want to read it and say something stupid again... Sorry for calling you a lunatic Magnus. I might say things like that when I'm mad but it's nothing.
In any case, you all keep bringing up some really good points, but they've already been addressed many times in the past. You're maybe right that two communities is not ideal, but the offer to work together was made months ago. And the offer to merge is still negotiable. We're not enemies. And to assume that the new website won't bring in new blood is not an unreasonable assumption, but it is a false one. We've already got quite a few new people. Albeit only between 2-5, but still people who are eager to learn modding.
And I wanted to clarify that a website is not magical. A website does not fix problems on its own. But what our site has done is brought a new spirit to WoW Modding. This thread itself is a complete riot, and that's a good thing! ;) It reminds people we exist. Many people have told us that they're coming back because new things are happening. People want change. It's a breath of fresh life for the modding community, and good things will come :)
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We were and maybe are (it is up to Milly to decide) happy to merge but Steff refused. Of course, we suggested working on a new site as a new platform because merging things into that site kills the entire idea, it won't help anything. This site (I mean Modcraft) is too outdated to be a fully functioning community now.
How can u talk about a merge that absicly means shut down modcraft and port everything to your site cuz u find modcraft outdated? I see you invested money into your site and I like the style. But you cant say you are open for a merge and on the other hand say a merge can not be doen wth the old site...
And about thr 4-5 guys you are talking about. Those are the standart guys who downlaod noggit somewhere encounter a problem and then nned help fixing it and never return. You can find those guys in the Noggit sectiona swell.
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And about thr 4-5 guys you are talking about. Those are the standart guys who downlaod noggit somewhere encounter a problem and then nned help fixing it and never return. You can find those guys in the Noggit sectiona swell.
Nope they're people I've talked to on Skype who are really excited about modding and just needed a hand ^^
And you're right, we wouldn't merge back into the old site. It goes against everything we've worked for. But it's still an offer of good intentions we weren't required to make to begin with.
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We were and maybe are (it is up to Milly to decide) happy to merge but Steff refused. Of course, we suggested working on a new site as a new platform because merging things into that site kills the entire idea, it won't help anything. This site (I mean Modcraft) is too outdated to be a fully functioning community now.
How can u talk about a merge that absicly means shut down modcraft and port everything to your site cuz u find modcraft outdated? I see you invested money into your site and I like the style. But you cant say you are open for a merge and on the other hand say a merge can not be doen wth the old site...
And about thr 4-5 guys you are talking about. Those are the standart guys who downlaod noggit somewhere encounter a problem and then nned help fixing it and never return. You can find those guys in the Noggit sectiona swell.
I personally did not invest money into it. Milly did, in more than decent amounts. But that's not the point. Does it make sense to merge into something that is worse than what you have, at least in my opinion. I think it does not. As I said Modcraft did not want to be changed when we asked long time ago, and so be it. We just moved forward with our own thing and are happy about it. People who like it ... well, I guess use it and contribute.
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I might say things like that when I'm mad but it's nothing.
I know that all the time. But such things are not nothing. Only a complete emotional-less person doesn't take such things not as a personal attack. I told already I accept your apologies but still waiting for Skarns apologies in this matter.
But to go to topic - your project - and some random thoughts by me:
- I believe that you want to help people in modding. And you have proofed that you can do that. And as it is a free world there is nothing to say against founding any new projects, therefore it's also fine for the modding scene.
But ....
you made your project already and after that you came back to this site Modcraft. From now on Modcraft and you are competing websites. That's not bad in general. However ... you came her and wrote in short words: We are bigger, better, the best ones. Please leave Modcraft and join us. From this point I think it's the pure generosity of Modcraft owners not to kick you off from here and send you to hell, isn't it or is it ?
Half of this thread you was speaking about humanity, respect and fairness. May you want to think about these words in the context of your advertisement here.
If it would be on my desk I wouldn't allowed that and 99% of other boards also wouldn't that, I guess. At least for this kind of generosity you get here by owners and community I ask you for some fairness. Stop comparing and rating your project against Modcraft or Modcraft owners, moderators and members.
- When you both came first to to me and asked for membership and help I was listening about the ideas you had and was asking you if you are sure to split a small community in that way. After listening I have seen that your ideas are quite different in that of Modcraft. They are neither better nor worse. Just different. Your ideas bases exactly on the requests the generation you are representing are got used and may also need. Your project contains a lot of social media modules and a modern fresh look. Besides of that it contains some outstanding tutorials. But than it ends and you need to produce exactly the same content as Modcraft is doing it since years.
- Some of your conclusions are wrong or unfair. You glorify your project by goofing on so called old-fashion projects but forget that your brandnew project is based exactly on the knowledge and technology of the last 40 years made by such old-fashion people your are pointing on now. Without internet, without social media, without graphic and the monitor was monochrom. But the stuff we made at that time is still working, valid and you use it every day. So stay on the carpet while your are promoting yourself as the topclass of modding scene and be aware that the wind blow harder on the very top. You are absolutely right to say this is not 1980, this 2015 and that's why I never was against your project in general.
- An other wrong conclusion is the idea that the modding scene will grow significant with your project. If you would have made the same intellectual effort here on Modcraft it would have exactly the same effect. May some new people comes and some left. You can't proof your claim yet because your project is too new. But I can proof my statement quite easily by comparing similar communities. The really sad fact is even the world population grows fast, the active members on similar projects like this sinks or at least doesn't grow. That's may be a surprising fact because it was never so easy to get in touch to fascinating technical hobbies as in these days. What's growing fast are communities looking funny videos about a dog's shitting in a corner.
- The way you started your project was not very mature in my eyes. The motivation to start was not only charity as you claim. In fact you started because there was a big fight here. And I guess the reason for the fight was exactly the same when I came in friendship to you and got only concentrated hate back without any reason, just because 'somebody has it's mad days'.
- It's the precedence of the older generation you don't like very much to forget such imprudent days quite soon. But in my opinion it's better you do further your business there and don't ask here anymore people to leave Modcraft.
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Thank you for your thoughts Magnus. Though, a few things I should mention. I checked and double-checked the rules page before posting here. Because I agree with you, it is not normal for owners to let this kind of post live. But there is no problem, and it is a good opportunity to advertise. If admins change their mind, that is okay.
Also, this project didn't start because of a big fight like you say. I did have a private argument with schlumpf, but that was a personal problem, not the reason behind the website. It was a motivator. The real reasons are stated in this thread.
And again I would say that I am fine with schlumpf these days. I as a matter of fact enjoy his witty company now.
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I might say things like that when I'm mad but it's nothing.
I know that all the time. But such things are not nothing. Only a complete emotional-less person doesn't take such things not as a personal attack. I told already I accept your apologies but still waiting for Skarns apologies in this matter.
But to go to topic - your project - and some random thoughts by me:
- I believe that you want to help people in modding. And you have proofed that you can do that. And as it is a free world there is nothing to say against founding any new projects, therefore it's also fine for the modding scene.
But ....
you made your project already and after that you came back to this site Modcraft. From now on Modcraft and you are competing websites. That's not bad in general. However ... you came her and wrote in short words: We are bigger, better, the best ones. Please leave Modcraft and join us. From this point I think it's the pure generosity of Modcraft owners not to kick you off from here and send you to hell, isn't it or is it ?
Half of this thread you was speaking about humanity, respect and fairness. May you want to think about these words in the context of your advertisement here.
If it would be on my desk I wouldn't allowed that and 99% of other boards also wouldn't that, I guess. At least for this kind of generosity you get here by owners and community I ask you for some fairness. Stop comparing and rating your project against Modcraft or Modcraft owners, moderators and members.
- When you both came first to to me and asked for membership and help I was listening about the ideas you had and was asking you if you are sure to split a small community in that way. After listening I have seen that your ideas are quite different in that of Modcraft. They are neither better nor worse. Just different. Your ideas bases exactly on the requests the generation you are representing are got used and may also need. Your project contains a lot of social media modules and a modern fresh look. Besides of that it contains some outstanding tutorials. But than it ends and you need to produce exactly the same content as Modcraft is doing it since years.
- Some of your conclusions are wrong or unfair. You glorify your project by goofing on so called old-fashion projects but forget that your brandnew project is based exactly on the knowledge and technology of the last 40 years made by such old-fashion people your are pointing on now. Without internet, without social media, without graphic and the monitor was monochrom. But the stuff we made at that time is still working, valid and you use it every day. So stay on the carpet while your are promoting yourself as the topclass of modding scene and be aware that the wind blow harder on the very top. You are absolutely right to say this is not 1980, this 2015 and that's why I never was against your project in general.
- An other wrong conclusion is the idea that the modding scene will grow significant with your project. If you would have made the same intellectual effort here on Modcraft it would have exactly the same effect. May some new people comes and some left. You can't proof your claim yet because your project is too new. But I can proof my statement quite easily by comparing similar communities. The really sad fact is even the world population grows fast, the active members on similar projects like this sinks or at least doesn't grow. That's may be a surprising fact because it was never so easy to get in touch to fascinating technical hobbies as in these days. What's growing fast are communities looking funny videos about a dog's shitting in a corner.
- The way you started your project was not very mature in my eyes. The motivation to start was not only charity as you claim. In fact you started because there was a big fight here. And I guess the reason for the fight was exactly the same when I came in friendship to you and got only concentrated hate back without any reason, just because 'somebody has it's mad days'.
- It's the precedence of the older generation you don't like very much to forget such imprudent days quite soon. But in my opinion it's better you do further your business there and don't ask here anymore people to leave Modcraft.
- I agree that I should have apologized to you for getting personal. And I apologize. It should not happen. Though, for me the reason for creating a new community is entirely my own idea which is not triggered by any conflicts or something. I know Milly had some argument with schlumpf ago but I am not related to it and I don't even remember what it was about. So, motivation to work on this communtiy is caused by the slow death of WoW modding. I like to mod WoW and I want modding come forward. Since 2013 things here are going worse and worse and it started with the death (comparing to what it was) of this board.
- I disagree with the fact that posting same things here will cause the same effect. No, it definitely won't. It will get lost among questions and other things because this is PHPbb board which is not structured as good as our site. Also talke in consideration .de, 3rd level domain, lack of social network advertising (yeah, we are going with that too. YouTube, Facebook, VK for now at least. It will take time to fill it all, but we are getting there). The main difference is that we want to __promote___ the idea of WoW modding and attract new people to the scene. Here people only maintain what we have without moving further.
As an example, I will provide the way I got into modding in 2011. By accident, I came across MC-Addicts videos on YouTube and got interested. I started searching, found Modcraft. Then I watched a lot of videos and got hyped about modding. This is not happening anymore as the community does not provide any videos. Modcraft is not a project anymore, it is just a board that maintains itself because there are people who still mod. Although, I would like to point out that something is still being done here as in sclumpf and maybe other guys documenting new things on wiki and some software development. It is all great and highly appreciated, though not enough to move forward. That is why I personally want to work on the new thing.
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Modcraft is not a project?
We still run Maruum what is latest name of the Project that also includes all old content.
And in the moment it realy gets forward :)
We only dont release much showoff stuff. What we should change next weeks.
Also for Neo.
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Modcraft is not a project?
We still run Maruum what is latest name of the Project that also includes all old content.
And in the moment it realy gets forward :)
We only dont release much showoff stuff. What we should change next weeks.
Also for Neo.
Well, I mean that Modcraft does not look like a project. Nothing changes in a positive way.
Also good that you reminded me. Modcraft is still at some point dedicated to promoting Maruum. It is a features project chosen by the stuff that gets most of attention and so on. Our platform allows you to create as many as you want. So, people get equality in the way they can present their works. I think it is much better.
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Also good that you reminded me. Modcraft is still at some point dedicated to promoting Maruum..
You Serious? When has this page ever promoted Maruum? Besides giving it a own subforum. Which basicly was offered to anyone...
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Also good that you reminded me. Modcraft is still at some point dedicated to promoting Maruum..
You Serious? When has this page ever promoted Maruum? Besides giving it a own subforum. Which basicly was offered to anyone...
It was not. I said that many times. Well... maybe it was offered. Though, it never came into practice. It is the same as "freedom of speech" in most countries. It is granted by law but not performed in reality. That's what I mean. Like no one ever asked for it. Come on.
I am just saying that, I don't actually care anymore.
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Simple becaus no Project ever applied for it :)
You need some screens to show up.
A running root for testing.
And some time gone where you work on it.
Then you get a featured project.
Because we dont want to delte and creat every 2 weeks new boards there some progress should be done alreay :)
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Thank you for your thoughts Magnus. Though, a few things I should mention. I checked and double-checked the rules page before posting here.
Just because it isn't written there, "don't be a dick" is not not part of the rules. Also, fuck the rules, this is a dictatorship, as I heard.
Tbh, I forgot how to even edit that page, and quite frankly, I don't care.
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Just because it isn't written there, "don't be a dick" is not not part of the rules. Also, fuck the rules, this is a dictatorship, as I heard.
Tbh, I forgot how to even edit that page, and quite frankly, I don't care.
God a man just has to love you schlumpf.
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Just because it isn't written there, "don't be a dick" is not not part of the rules. Also, fuck the rules, this is a dictatorship, as I heard.
Tbh, I forgot how to even edit that page, and quite frankly, I don't care.
So uh, what's the deal? I don't care either. That's the point.
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I wonder if we should go write a post like this one on your website
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I wonder if we should go write a post like this one on your website
I don't know, maybe you should. And now that the thread has derailed again, let's play a forum game :D
Whoever posts the best Tapir picture within the next 24 hours wins. I'll go first!
(https://begbie.com/images/yaypir.gif)
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because this is PHPbb board which is not structured as good as our site
Your board has pretty much the same forums and structure except or a gallery on top and worthless blocks on the portal.
lack of social network advertising (yeah, we are going with that too. YouTube, Facebook, VK for now at least. It will take time to fill it all, but we are getting there).
One can do so without site integration. But do you? Nope. Having a button does not help. Doing shit does. You can do so since years. An URL never changed shit. "model changing" is just as unknown to a newcomer as "mod craft". A name is a name. by definition you need to learn the name. If it ends in ".net" or ".superparanoid.de" does not change that.
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Whoever posts the best Tapir picture within the next 24 hours wins. I'll go first!
(https://begbie.com/images/yaypir.gif)
No we don't.
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Just wanted to say:
(http://cookdiary.net/wp-content/uploads/images/White-Bread.jpg)
Has more content than this conversation at this point.
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Das ist ein Brot!!! :!: :!: :!:
P.S. Guys, stop pooping in the thread until it gets deleted. It is not a part of my plan at least.
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tapirs or riot.
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Thank you for your thoughts Magnus. Though, a few things I should mention. I checked and double-checked the rules page before posting here.
Just because it isn't written there, "don't be a dick" is not not part of the rules. Also, fuck the rules, this is a dictatorship, as I heard.
Tbh, I forgot how to even edit that page, and quite frankly, I don't care.
Give that man a cookie btw.
About that YouTube and videos and stuff, what community actually really does need is being found. Follow these 2 links:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ate+server (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=world+of+warcraft+private+server" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=b0 ... ate+server (https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=b0pvVvT9OOWk8wep_oDQDQ#q=world+of+warcraft+private+server" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
And think for a while what is shown THERE. Is it related to WoW Modding as WE know and perform it? How much? Can it lead people who search for such things to Modcraft or MC-Net and why? What needs to be done to make us be visible there?
What we DO need is advertisement. People need to know that WoW can be modded, that lots of amazing things can be achieved there and most importantly - that those things are quite easy and easy to learn. And that there is community dedicated to learning and teaching such things. I agree with fact that modern page and, much more importantly, .net domain can help. Social media and such shit, you know... That just says that you are... socialized there. I feel a little bit too much socialized nowadays. In my opinion, world would use much less amount of socialization from time to time. Words about funny videos about dog shittin' in corner of room were well aimed - that is what Internet is for today. For this and for porn. We need to make us be at least a little bit more visible in shit and porn. And I hope that noone wants to argue at least about this.
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I think your points are the most valid Amaroth. Except no cookies for schlumpf. >:C
But really, advertisement is probably the #1 thing that WoW modding needs. Not in the commercial marketing sense. We mostly just need to spread awareness. Some of us have already been reaching out to people from other communities, as well as telling our friends, but it's not enough. What would be really great is if folks like Reznik helped us out by spreading the word. Or if someone else with time and skills could do something similar.
Another thing people need is guidance. WoW modding is natural to us, but it's actually a really steep learning curve.
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I have seen Reznik showing Modcraft to his viewers in one his video, but it was a czech video and he was showing a czech section here. So its just for a limited audience. I have put MC-Net and Modcraft tags to all of my videos. But what we truly need are english showoff videos containing (at the beginning of video) links to at least one of our sites.
Another point. Try googling MC-Net or Modcraft. You can be damn sure that EVERYONE will misunderstand actually both sites as some another site related to Minecraft. While this could seem to be helpful because of Minecraft's popularity, it doesn't drag audience which would be interrested in WoW modding. Modcraft says nothing about us (and its name of some popular lets play series on YouTube, so we are just overthrown by... that thing).:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Modcraft (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Modcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
MC-Net leads to very similiar results (well, its a new page, but are you sure that it will get better over time?). Your efforts to be cross-platform model changing site and make it look so in its domain name are both ambitious and doom for your advertisement campaign. Your arguments why http://modcraft.io/ (http://modcraft.io/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is probably the worse domain we can have are valid. But your domain is sadly far from optimal, too. I would put wowmodding.net there. MC-Net is catchy, I'll give you that, but that Minecraft thing still makes it poor choice in my opinion.
Btw:
https://www.google.com/search?q=modcraf ... 2&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=modcraft&rlz=1C1MSNB_enCZ611CZ611&oq=modcraft&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3j69i59j0.160j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
- The only "useful" videos being shown while looking for this are some outdated videos full of Vanilla models and poor terrain designing skills. No offence meant for whoever who made those zones show in those videos, its just reality, I was making such maps too, but well, 3 years ago. Take a look at recent Allifeur's work. Thats something what should truly be saying something about us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBY-hSGKZ80 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBY-hSGKZ80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
40k views and content is like 7 years old. The thing is, it really IS nearly 7 years old.
If you still want to wonder why the most of the world doesn't know about us - try looking into search engines what will you find when you try to search for key words people interrested in WoW and/or modding things might be entering there. Will you find us there? No? Why? Yes? What kind of "amazing, stunning, awesome" things will you find if yes? And that is problem you need to have fixed first guys. I can try to help you with YouTube efforts, I can create an english YT channel, but sadly I am not sure if I have enough time for such things left.
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Wasn't sure what you meant by our site being multi-platform. It is a WoW Modding site ^^
And yeah, I don't know how keen we are with MC Net. I much rather prefer calling it Model Changing Network which is its proper name. Using MC Net in the logo is more about design constraints.
Though, still against calling it WoW Modding. It'd be like if Sleep World were called Beds. Might be good as a domain name but then causes an identity crisis sort of thing.
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I just tryed to make my feedback constructive.
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It is constructive :D don't know if you got the wrong impression. I appreciate everything you said and you bring up a lot of concerns.
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I think your points are the most valid Amaroth. Except no cookies for schlumpf. >:C
But really, advertisement is probably the #1 thing that WoW modding needs. Not in the commercial marketing sense. We mostly just need to spread awareness. Some of us have already been reaching out to people from other communities, as well as telling our friends, but it's not enough. What would be really great is if folks like Reznik helped us out by spreading the word. Or if someone else with time and skills could do something similar.
Another thing people need is guidance. WoW modding is natural to us, but it's actually a really steep learning curve.
I want to mention that like everyone here is saying that we need to advertise WoW modding but i actually see nearly no posts from the good modding guys at the bigger private server forums where they show their stuff. They nearly always post it just here.
If you all really want to advertise modding, post all your stuff on AC-Web, ElitePvPers, OwnedCore, EmuDevs and co too. Advertise modding on modding only sites isn't really effective.
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I think your points are the most valid Amaroth. Except no cookies for schlumpf. >:C
But really, advertisement is probably the #1 thing that WoW modding needs. Not in the commercial marketing sense. We mostly just need to spread awareness. Some of us have already been reaching out to people from other communities, as well as telling our friends, but it's not enough. What would be really great is if folks like Reznik helped us out by spreading the word. Or if someone else with time and skills could do something similar.
Another thing people need is guidance. WoW modding is natural to us, but it's actually a really steep learning curve.
I want to mention that like everyone here is saying that we need to advertise WoW modding but i actually see nearly no posts from the good modding guys at the bigger private server forums where they show their stuff. They nearly always post it just here.
If you all really want to advertise modding, post all your stuff on AC-Web, ElitePvPers, OwnedCore, EmuDevs and co too. Advertise modding on modding only sites isn't really effective.
The real problem is that those Model Editing sections there are not popular. New content rarely appears there, so people don't look there too often. In my opinion, the best way to advertise is YouTube. Shows your works, link the site name in the videos. People come across those and get excited, they start reading more about modding. In order to drag their attention, one can make some non-modding related videos, for example some Legion Beta review. Just to drag more potential users to watch other things on the channel.
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In my opinion, the best way to advertise is YouTube. Shows your works, link the site name in the videos. People come across those and get excited, they start reading more about modding. In order to drag their attention, one can make some non-modding related videos, for example some Legion Beta review. Just to drag more potential users to watch other things on the channel.
Thats exactly the point I wanted to reach. Forums have quite limited audience, even these "big" ones.
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In my opinion, the best way to advertise is YouTube. Shows your works, link the site name in the videos. People come across those and get excited, they start reading more about modding. In order to drag their attention, one can make some non-modding related videos, for example some Legion Beta review. Just to drag more potential users to watch other things on the channel.
Thats exactly the point I wanted to reach. Forums have quite limited audience, even these "big" ones.
Well, that's particularly the reason why we are going with social media.
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I personally think Kaev is on the right track. Posting on Ac-Web and other larger websites might actually help. Yeah the modding scene is very tiny on those sites but that is the problem. Nobody posts there. But these sites are still filled with emulator folks who might want to learn more if they come across some really nice builds and so on.
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The only problem is that people who tried posting there about Modcraft long ago got some warnings from local admins. Like you are not allowed to post external links there or something. I might be wrong but I think I remember something like that on AC-Web and maybe Emudevs, not sure.
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I think your points are the most valid Amaroth. Except no cookies for schlumpf. >:C
But really, advertisement is probably the #1 thing that WoW modding needs. Not in the commercial marketing sense. We mostly just need to spread awareness. Some of us have already been reaching out to people from other communities, as well as telling our friends, but it's not enough. What would be really great is if folks like Reznik helped us out by spreading the word. Or if someone else with time and skills could do something similar.
Another thing people need is guidance. WoW modding is natural to us, but it's actually a really steep learning curve.
I want to mention that like everyone here is saying that we need to advertise WoW modding but i actually see nearly no posts from the good modding guys at the bigger private server forums where they show their stuff. They nearly always post it just here.
If you all really want to advertise modding, post all your stuff on AC-Web, ElitePvPers, OwnedCore, EmuDevs and co too. Advertise modding on modding only sites isn't really effective.
But... but... but those sites are cancer.
No, but seriously. I just prefer not to post on those sites. I don't even visit them anymore since most of the tutorials or info on them is either ripped from here or just garbage as-far as I've seen.
Might be useful to post there with links to both ModCraft and Model-Changing to move users away from those other sites.
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Might be useful to post there with links to both ModCraft and Model-Changing to move users away from those other sites.
That's actually what i wanted to reach with my post. If you post model changing stuff there, they will get interested and (hopefully) join our forums.
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But i can't register to your website, registration mail isn't send.
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But i can't register to your website, registration mail isn't send.
Check the spam folder.