A New Website for WoW Modding

[Alastor]

Mainly ... theres a diference between MC-ModCraft and MC-Model Changing that is in community and if you know those ppl you would know why

[MountainLion]

I agree with Steff. I think the right thing to do is help an already established community.

I offered myself to help Modcraft. I don't know who has offered their help, but perhaps a thread should be created for people to sign up and join the cause?

[Steff]

Hm, well, we did. <<< Nope. Noone ever came to me and asked me .. hey could I help you technical manage the Board. And creat as a Member a second community and then ask the other existing one to join... I business you call this hostile acquisition

But let it end here. If people like the new site I am happy if they get there and feel good.

[Magnus]

Nope. Noone ever came to me and asked me .. hey could I help you technical manage the Board.

In this we differ, Steff.
I and Skarn have both asked. The answer was No thanks, not necessary.

The difference between me and Skarn is: I have accepted that and I'm still happy with Modcraft while Skarn and Milly want to split the community.

I really wish them all the best on their way and a Merry Christmas.

I just have some doubts that the right way to found a new friendly community is to call community members as lunatic, psychopathic rassists ;-)

[Mr. DK]

This topic has been online for quite some time now. First I wanted to keep my hands out of this but there are a few things I want to say. First of all most of the people would agree that the small community we have become does not need 2 websites. I understand that the second page was created to be a better Modcraft. You can deny it but thats how it is. Its your opinion of how things should be. They have alot of nice content and this page really could use some polish. But this does not mean the second page is in any way better than the first. To be honest a new look and stuff like galleries dont make it a better thing. What we really lack and i know this has been discussed several times is fresh blood in the community and this new page wont help with that. I took a visit to the site and felt like its been nearly as "confusing" as this site. Nonetheless I think there owners will not agree in "reuniting" and therefore we will probably see which community makes the race. Because on the longterm we are to view people to really maintain 2 sites.

I hope anyone will find my opinion usfull and good morning Modcraft!

[Skarn]

This topic has been online for quite some time now. First I wanted to keep my hands out of this but there are a few things I want to say. First of all most of the people would agree that the small community we have become does not need 2 websites. I understand that the second page was created to be a better Modcraft. You can deny it but thats how it is. Its your opinion of how things should be. They have alot of nice content and this page really could use some polish. But this does not mean the second page is in any way better than the first. To be honest a new look and stuff like galleries dont make it a better thing. What we really lack and i know this has been discussed several times is fresh blood in the community and this new page wont help with that. I took a visit to the site and felt like its been nearly as "confusing" as this site. Nonetheless I think there owners will not agree in "reuniting" and therefore we will probably see which community makes the race. Because on the longterm we are to view people to really maintain 2 sites.

I hope anyone will find my opinion usfull and good morning Modcraft!

Yeah, I actually agree at some points but in general... The point of our site is to attract new and more people which has already happened. We got several users who were not doing modding before. We were and maybe are (it is up to Milly to decide) happy to merge but Steff refused. Of course, we suggested working on a new site as a new platform because merging things into that site kills the entire idea, it won't help anything. This site (I mean Modcraft) is too outdated to be a fully functioning community now.

[Milly]

Hi guys, I've been ignoring this thread because I don't want to read it and say something stupid again... Sorry for calling you a lunatic Magnus. I might say things like that when I'm mad but it's nothing.

In any case, you all keep bringing up some really good points, but they've already been addressed many times in the past. You're maybe right that two communities is not ideal, but the offer to work together was made months ago. And the offer to merge is still negotiable. We're not enemies. And to assume that the new website won't bring in new blood is not an unreasonable assumption, but it is a false one. We've already got quite a few new people. Albeit only between 2-5, but still people who are eager to learn modding.

And I wanted to clarify that a website is not magical. A website does not fix problems on its own. But what our site has done is brought a new spirit to WoW Modding. This thread itself is a complete riot, and that's a good thing!   It reminds people we exist. Many people have told us that they're coming back because new things are happening. People want change. It's a breath of fresh life for the modding community, and good things will come

[Mr. DK]

We were and maybe are (it is up to Milly to decide) happy to merge but Steff refused. Of course, we suggested working on a new site as a new platform because merging things into that site kills the entire idea, it won't help anything. This site (I mean Modcraft) is too outdated to be a fully functioning community now.

How can u talk about a merge that absicly means shut down modcraft and port everything to your site cuz u find modcraft outdated? I see you invested money into your site and I like the style. But you cant say you are open for a merge and on the other hand say a merge can not be doen wth the old site...


And about thr 4-5 guys you are talking about. Those are the standart guys who downlaod noggit somewhere encounter a problem and then nned help fixing it and never return. You can find those guys in the Noggit sectiona swell.

[Milly]

And about thr 4-5 guys you are talking about. Those are the standart guys who downlaod noggit somewhere encounter a problem and then nned help fixing it and never return. You can find those guys in the Noggit sectiona swell.

Nope they're people I've talked to on Skype who are really excited about modding and just needed a hand ^^

And you're right, we wouldn't merge back into the old site. It goes against everything we've worked for. But it's still an offer of good intentions we weren't required to make to begin with.

[Skarn]

We were and maybe are (it is up to Milly to decide) happy to merge but Steff refused. Of course, we suggested working on a new site as a new platform because merging things into that site kills the entire idea, it won't help anything. This site (I mean Modcraft) is too outdated to be a fully functioning community now.

How can u talk about a merge that absicly means shut down modcraft and port everything to your site cuz u find modcraft outdated? I see you invested money into your site and I like the style. But you cant say you are open for a merge and on the other hand say a merge can not be doen wth the old site...


And about thr 4-5 guys you are talking about. Those are the standart guys who downlaod noggit somewhere encounter a problem and then nned help fixing it and never return. You can find those guys in the Noggit sectiona swell.

I personally did not invest money into it. Milly did, in more than decent amounts. But that's not the point. Does it make sense to merge into something that is worse than what you have, at least in my opinion. I think it does not. As I said Modcraft did not want to be changed when we asked long time ago, and so be it. We just moved forward with our own thing and are happy about it. People who like it ... well, I guess use it and contribute.

[Magnus]

I might say things like that when I'm mad but it's nothing.

I know that all the time. But such things are not nothing. Only a complete emotional-less person doesn't take such things not as a personal attack. I told already I accept your apologies but still waiting for Skarns apologies in this matter.

But to go to topic - your project - and some random thoughts by me:

- I believe that you want to help people in modding. And you have proofed that you can do that. And as it is a free world there is nothing to say against founding any new projects, therefore it's also fine for the modding scene.
But ....
you made your project already and after that you came back to this site Modcraft. From now on Modcraft and you are competing websites. That's not bad in general. However ... you came her and wrote in short words: We are bigger, better, the best ones. Please leave Modcraft and join us. From this point I think it's the pure generosity of Modcraft owners not to kick you off from here and send you to hell, isn't it or is it ?
Half of this thread you was speaking about humanity, respect and fairness. May you want to think about these words in the context of your advertisement here.
If it would be on my desk I wouldn't allowed that and 99% of other boards also wouldn't that, I guess. At least for this kind of generosity you get here by owners and community I ask you for some fairness. Stop comparing and rating your project against Modcraft or Modcraft owners, moderators and members.

- When you both came first to to me and asked for membership and help I was listening about the ideas you had and was asking you if you are sure to split a small community in that way. After listening I have seen that your ideas are quite different in that of Modcraft. They are neither better nor worse. Just different. Your ideas bases exactly on the requests the generation you are representing are got used and may also need. Your project contains a lot of social media modules and a modern fresh look. Besides of that it contains some outstanding tutorials. But than it ends and you need to produce exactly the same content as Modcraft is doing it since years.

- Some of your conclusions are wrong or unfair. You glorify your project by goofing on so called old-fashion projects but forget that your brandnew project is based exactly on the knowledge and technology of the last 40 years made by such old-fashion people your are pointing on now. Without internet, without social media, without graphic and the monitor was monochrom. But the stuff we made at that time is still working, valid and you use it every day. So stay on the carpet while your are promoting yourself as the topclass of modding scene and be aware that the wind blow harder on the very top. You are absolutely right to say this is not 1980, this 2015 and that's why I never was against your project in general.

- An other wrong conclusion is the idea that the modding scene will grow significant with your project. If you would have made the same intellectual effort here on Modcraft it would have exactly the same effect. May some new people comes and some left. You can't proof your claim yet because your project is too new. But I can proof my statement quite easily by comparing similar communities. The really sad fact is even the world population grows fast, the active members on similar projects like this sinks or at least doesn't grow. That's may be a surprising fact because it was never so easy to get in touch to fascinating technical hobbies as in these days. What's growing fast are communities looking funny videos about a dog's shitting in a corner.

- The way you started your project was not very mature in my eyes. The motivation to start was not only charity as you claim. In fact you started because there was a big fight here. And I guess the reason for the fight was exactly the same when I came in friendship to you and got only concentrated hate back without any reason, just because 'somebody has it's mad days'.

- It's the precedence of the older generation you don't like very much to forget such imprudent days quite soon. But in my opinion it's better you do further your business there and don't ask here anymore people to leave Modcraft.

[Milly]

Thank you for your thoughts Magnus. Though, a few things I should mention. I checked and double-checked the rules page before posting here. Because I agree with you, it is not normal for owners to let this kind of post live. But there is no problem, and it is a good opportunity to advertise. If admins change their mind, that is okay.

Also, this project didn't start because of a big fight like you say. I did have a private argument with schlumpf, but that was a personal problem, not the reason behind the website. It was a motivator. The real reasons are stated in this thread.

And again I would say that I am fine with schlumpf these days. I as a matter of fact enjoy his witty company now.

[Skarn]

I might say things like that when I'm mad but it's nothing.

I know that all the time. But such things are not nothing. Only a complete emotional-less person doesn't take such things not as a personal attack. I told already I accept your apologies but still waiting for Skarns apologies in this matter.

But to go to topic - your project - and some random thoughts by me:

- I believe that you want to help people in modding. And you have proofed that you can do that. And as it is a free world there is nothing to say against founding any new projects, therefore it's also fine for the modding scene.
But ....
you made your project already and after that you came back to this site Modcraft. From now on Modcraft and you are competing websites. That's not bad in general. However ... you came her and wrote in short words: We are bigger, better, the best ones. Please leave Modcraft and join us. From this point I think it's the pure generosity of Modcraft owners not to kick you off from here and send you to hell, isn't it or is it ?
Half of this thread you was speaking about humanity, respect and fairness. May you want to think about these words in the context of your advertisement here.
If it would be on my desk I wouldn't allowed that and 99% of other boards also wouldn't that, I guess. At least for this kind of generosity you get here by owners and community I ask you for some fairness. Stop comparing and rating your project against Modcraft or Modcraft owners, moderators and members.

- When you both came first to to me and asked for membership and help I was listening about the ideas you had and was asking you if you are sure to split a small community in that way. After listening I have seen that your ideas are quite different in that of Modcraft. They are neither better nor worse. Just different. Your ideas bases exactly on the requests the generation you are representing are got used and may also need. Your project contains a lot of social media modules and a modern fresh look. Besides of that it contains some outstanding tutorials. But than it ends and you need to produce exactly the same content as Modcraft is doing it since years.

- Some of your conclusions are wrong or unfair. You glorify your project by goofing on so called old-fashion projects but forget that your brandnew project is based exactly on the knowledge and technology of the last 40 years made by such old-fashion people your are pointing on now. Without internet, without social media, without graphic and the monitor was monochrom. But the stuff we made at that time is still working, valid and you use it every day. So stay on the carpet while your are promoting yourself as the topclass of modding scene and be aware that the wind blow harder on the very top. You are absolutely right to say this is not 1980, this 2015 and that's why I never was against your project in general.

- An other wrong conclusion is the idea that the modding scene will grow significant with your project. If you would have made the same intellectual effort here on Modcraft it would have exactly the same effect. May some new people comes and some left. You can't proof your claim yet because your project is too new. But I can proof my statement quite easily by comparing similar communities. The really sad fact is even the world population grows fast, the active members on similar projects like this sinks or at least doesn't grow. That's may be a surprising fact because it was never so easy to get in touch to fascinating technical hobbies as in these days. What's growing fast are communities looking funny videos about a dog's shitting in a corner.

- The way you started your project was not very mature in my eyes. The motivation to start was not only charity as you claim. In fact you started because there was a big fight here. And I guess the reason for the fight was exactly the same when I came in friendship to you and got only concentrated hate back without any reason, just because 'somebody has it's mad days'.

- It's the precedence of the older generation you don't like very much to forget such imprudent days quite soon. But in my opinion it's better you do further your business there and don't ask here anymore people to leave Modcraft.

- I agree that I should have apologized to you for getting personal. And I apologize. It should not happen. Though, for me the reason for creating a new community is entirely my own idea which is not triggered by any conflicts or something. I know Milly had some argument with schlumpf ago but I am not related to it and I don't even remember what it was about. So, motivation to work on this communtiy is caused by the slow death of WoW modding. I like to mod WoW and I want modding come forward. Since 2013 things here are going worse and worse and it started with the death (comparing to what it was) of this board.

- I disagree with the fact that posting same things here will cause the same effect. No, it definitely won't. It will get lost among questions and other things because this is PHPbb board which is not structured as good as our site. Also talke in consideration .de, 3rd level domain, lack of social network advertising (yeah, we are going with that too. YouTube, Facebook, VK for now at least. It will take time to fill it all, but we are getting there). The main difference is that we want to __promote___ the idea of WoW modding and attract new people to the scene. Here people only maintain what we have without moving further.

As an example, I will provide the way I got into modding in 2011. By accident, I came across MC-Addicts videos on YouTube and got interested. I started searching, found Modcraft. Then I watched a lot of videos and got hyped about modding. This is not happening anymore as the community does not provide any videos. Modcraft is not a project anymore, it is just a board that maintains itself because there are people who still mod. Although, I would like to point out that something is still being done here as in sclumpf and maybe other guys documenting new things on wiki and some software development. It is all great and highly appreciated, though not enough to move forward. That is why I personally want to work on the new thing.

[Steff]

Modcraft is not a project?

We still run Maruum what is latest name of the Project that also includes all old content.
And in the moment it realy gets forward

We only dont release much showoff stuff. What we should change next weeks.
Also for Neo.

[Skarn]

Modcraft is not a project?

We still run Maruum what is latest name of the Project that also includes all old content.
And in the moment it realy gets forward

We only dont release much showoff stuff. What we should change next weeks.
Also for Neo.

Well, I mean that Modcraft does not look like a project. Nothing changes in a positive way.
Also good that you reminded me. Modcraft is still at some point dedicated to promoting Maruum. It is a features project chosen by the stuff that gets most of attention and so on. Our platform allows you to create as many as you want. So, people get equality in the way they can present their works. I think it is much better.