A realistic after-Warcraft III server

[Martinus]

Greetings and I wish a good day to all of you,

I would like to use this space for presentation of my idea and concept and to open it for potential opinions, review and other possible relations to the topic for the contribution to and developement of the matter.

The idea is to create a World of Warcraft server more consistent with the situations of Warcraft I - III, as some of the content (objects, locations, entities, events) is being altered or absent in the later game (World of Warcraft). With this, there is an intention to change the course of storyline in order to continue in the spirit of the previous games. Additionally, the game mechanics can be changed, according to the descriptions below, in order to create both more realistic and ideal World of Warcraft.

This is only the presentation of the idea and the concept and I personally do not have a technical capacity to realize it.


Some of the planned principial changes:

1. Environment and other general information

1.1 The game shall chronologically be set sooner than the events in World of Warcraft (less then 4 years after the Battle of Mount Hyjal).

1.2 The World, in global, should resemble the one as depicted on the following picture: <http://www.lonclan.altervista.org/mappe/megamap.jpg>. Regional layout of geografic features should conceptually be funded from loading screens and other maps of Warcraft III, II and I. Local environment should be conform with the content and dispositions of scenarios from Warcraft III campaigns.

1.3 If it would be possible, the World should be larger (1,5x) than the actual one in World of Warcraft. If not, only re-shaping should take place.

1.4 The World will be less civilized, which will be a result of reduction of number and spatial distribution of settlements and road systems (with the exception of more civilized areas, mostly in Lordaeron).

1.5 The system of flying transportation should be changed by a removal of transport via Flight Masters. Mounts, both ground or flying (or other potential ones) can be acquired by own means or by authorization for use. In the first case the player can tame an animal and turn it into a mount or construct a mechanised mount. In the second instance of authorization, the mount can be given by the other owner (mostly by local or other authority with mounts at its disposal) under certain conditions and for certain purposes.

1.6 There will not be Soulbound items and such and there will be no restrictions on type of armor or weapon which can be worn or used (please, see 5.4 for further reasoning and penalties).

1.7 There should not be an instanced areas.

1.8 Creatures should be redistributed according to their roles (their numbers and spatial distribution should change). Spawning time should be longer with a possibility of relatively permanent removal by extermination.

1.9 Items (and loot) should always accomodate the nature of its source object or entity. For instance: A boar should (ideally and realistically) always drop itself – the whole boar – which can afterwards be decomposed unto other parts (for example: head [two eyes, ears, tusks, a tongue, skull], torso [flesh, spine, other bones], legs, skin).

1.10 Creature strength shall be determined by their physical and magical potency, not by level. A creature of short stature shall always be inferior to the creatures of greater stature, if considering only physical disposition (a gnome can not overpower an ogre in physical match, nor can an orc stand against an Ancient). However, magical potency as well as combat skills can influence the course of an encounter, but the principle remains the same (a Murloc in Westfall will be equal in strength to a Murloc in Dustwallow Marsh or Azshara).

2. Factions and playable races:

2.1 Human (or Alliance) Expedition:
Situated in the eastern parts of the Central Kalimdor. Consist of humans (Nation of Theramore), high elves (of Quel'Thalas and from other parts of Lordaeron who joined the Expedition by incident), dwarves (Wildhammer and Ironforge), gnomes. Gameplay by default will focus on a life within a civilized comunity, patroling and helping in settlements, protecting borders from Centaurs and cooperating with the Horde.

2.2 The Horde:
Situated in Durotar, Mulgore, Barrens and Dustwallow Marsh regions of Central Kalimdor. Consists of Orcs (Orcish Horde), Jungle Trolls (Darkspear Tribe), Tauren (Bloodhoof Tribe), Goblins (those gathered and organised within the Horde by Chief Engineer Gazlowe), Ogres (Stonemaul [may not be playable]). Gameplay by default will focus on taming the land - harvesting, mining, protecting caravans and borders and repelling the invading Centaurs and Quilboars.

2.3 Night Elves:
Situated in (listed from the most to the least populated – by overall population): Ashenvale, Moonglade, Azshara, Hyjal, Winterspring, Feralas (western part of Northern Kalimdor [please, relate to the space in manual map of Ashenvale in Warcraft III], Darkshore (north). Gameplay by default will focus on healing the Ashenvale and other northern areas - hunting for the remaining demons and corrupted creatures (with possible assistance from the Horde and Theramore), healing the land and facing a new threat: mysterious Monoliths have begun to appear deep in the forests of Ashenvale, attracting the creatures who inhabit the land and transforming them into something sinister...

There should be neutrality between the Horde (mainly Orcs and Trolls), former Human Expedition forces and the Night Elves.

2.4 Other possible playable factions and races:

2.4.1 Kingdom of Azeroth:
Gameplay focused on re-establishin a kingdom with repopulation and recultivation of a land with occuring skirmishes with the gnolls and other enemies [Defias Brotherhood, if so called, will only be a simple band of bandits] and there will not be a concentrated threat).

2.4.2 Kingdom of Ironforge:
Gameplay focused mainly on mining, blacksmithing, sending reinforcements to Humans in Lordaeron and protecting borders from gnoll, yeti, orc or ogre raiding parties.

2.4.3 Blood Elves
After the defeat at Icecrown, the Blood Elves, led by Prince Kael'thas, fleed, and, with nowhere to go, sailed to Quel'Thalas to try to retake their homeland. Gameplay will focus on war against the Scourge in Quel'Thalas.

2.4.4 Forsaken
After the division of the Scourge, Sylvanas with the rest of her kin is trying to find a place in the world as the Scourge is striking back. Gameplay will focus on battle against the Scourge on all fronts in a battle for survival.

2.4.5 The Alliance (remnants of the forces of Grand Marshal Garithos and other survivors)
With the death of Grand Marshal Garithos and destruction of most of their forces, the Humans and their allies have retreated southward, to the foothills of Alterac Mountains, reclaiming the towns of Hillsbrad, Southshore and Tarren Mill. Gameplay will focus on living a rural and maritime life, protecting the northern borders from casual attacks from the Scourge.

3. General gameplay system

Each player character will start as generic – without any class specialisation. In mechanics, the class will not be chosen formally – it will be derived from the abilities the character learned or attained from interaction with the World. The class system will therefore be only declaratory: what the player states of himself, by association with the specific in-game group or other possible means.

Each character (and entity) shall have, as a power resource, energy (based on mana system).

3.1 Examples
Player, who focuses his gameplay on melee combat will most likely use melee weapons and might use a shield. By the very usage of those items, some of his atributes may increase: strength, for instance, thus the Character will be able to deal more damage, to absorb more damage, and even increase his Energy pool, thus being able to endure in combat for longer period, as attacks performed by Character and damage it recieves drain Energy.

Player, who rather searches the world for mysteries may learn (from found objects or discovered formulas) how to perform mystical actions and invoke forces magical in nature.

4. Combat system

Leveling will be disabled, with each attribute and ability being skilled individually.

5. Other features

5.1 Life regeneration
Life will be regenaretd automatically from energy and thus drainning it in the process.

5.2 Energy regeneration
Energy can be regenerated, in common, by consumation of food or drinks. The other means of regeneration may require a mystical influence, which must be trained or mediated from other source of power capable of such mediation: meditation, prayer, spells (the same applies for Life regeneration).

5.3 Hunger and Thirst
Each character shall be permanently affected by Hunger and Thirst, both of which shall slowly drain its Energy.

5.4 Burden
Each item carried by a character shall slow its movement and possibly attack speed by certain value, depending on weight of an item concerned.

5.5 Cold and Hot temperature (may be reduced only on Cold effects)
In areas with cold or hot weather, the character will be under the effect of respective temperature extreme. Its Energy will be drained by its effects respectively. The effect can be reduced by adequate clothing.

6. Death

The idea of this concept is to increase the interest of a Player to stay alive and to avoid death and therefore behaving more realistically. To this end the death is made both more penalizing and experiencing. The game will provide an options to return to life, but the process is more demanding, yet it also provides an exclusive new roles for Player and therefore being also of great importance to the gaming experience. The Player will actually be able to play as a Character ghost, with existing and acting only in the Spirit world. It can, however, increase its power in order to increase the level of interaction with the Material world. Ultimately, it can even bring itself to life.

7. And more


A model of a gaming scenario:

An orc character starts as a generic orc in Orgrimmar with poor clothing and unarmed. Initially available quests (and possibly repeatable):

a) Recruit in Orgrimmar Tunnels to offer protection against the Kobolds, in Orgrimmar to offer protection against the Harpies, in outpost to offer protection against the Centaurs, in any settlement on caravan route to offer protection of caravans.

b) Work in Orgrimmar Tunnels to mine ore or collect water.

c) Work at farms: keep the swine (feed, clean the mess or protect from potential threat [centaurs, quilboars, harpies]).

d) Work at the sea-port: catch fish or loading and moving cargo.


I will reaveal and discuss further content depending on your reactions.

------------
UPDATE:


16:18, 24.10.2015
- New attachments added (Concept maps of the World)

[MountainLion]

Somewhat of an ambitious project. Have you any knowledge yourself on modding yet?

[Martinus]

Somewhat of an ambitious project. Have you any knowledge yourself on modding yet?

Greetings, MountainLion,

I can say that I do not have. I have read some tutorials before, but it was longer time ago and I have never put it into practice.

[MountainLion]

Well met

I see. I would suggest that you begin learning then. You can always start with Steff's Noggit Tutorial series http://modcraft.io/viewforum.php?f=78 and get familiar with world building. Modding involves many different aspects.

I suggest that you begin working on the project yourself and then others might be interested in perhaps joining it and contributing further to it, after seeing that work has been put into it already!

If you have questions about stuff just ask and someone will point you in the right direction. Good luck!

[Martinus]

Well met

I see. I would suggest that you begin learning then. You can always start with Steff's Noggit Tutorial series http://modcraft.io/viewforum.php?f=78 and get familiar with world building. Modding involves many different aspects.

I suggest that you begin working on the project yourself and then others might be interested in perhaps joining it and contributing further to it, after seeing that work has been put into it already!

If you have questions about stuff just ask and someone will point you in the right direction. Good luck!

I thank you for your kind suggestion and wishes.

As I have mentioned, I do not have capacities to do such a thing. I have intended to present the idea to the interest of others and to see reactions on it and, if possible, to establish a team which will work on it.

[Amaroth]

Work on yourself, show others that you are serious about this project by actually starting to work on it. Its really pain in the *** to work for someone who has no idea wth are you talking about when it comes to your job and its really huge pain in the *** to basically lead project which is not your own for someone, who simply isn't enough experienced to be real leader, but is still at least an "owner".


Finish something on your own and become leader, not just owner. Don't expect others to do everything for you. Otherwise you will have pretty hard time finding and/or keeping some really experienced devs and you will have even much harder time actually finishing project and releasing it. I would always preffer to make my own project instead of doing someone other's project for him instead of him.
___________________________________________________________


About project's concept, here we go, its exactly like I thought. Huge expectations, loads of great ideas... But no clue how time-consuming and hard to make those things are. WoW was made by hundreds of professionals, tested by thousands of testers. You have a few random internet guys. Even a good team of experienced and hard-working developers (3-4 hours per day, not 3/4 hours per week) would be making this happen a few years. While I like your ideas, you seem to be wanting to climb on Mt. Everest while the highest more hill than mountain ever climbed by you had height around 1500 metres.

If you want me to point out things which are really nearly impossible to do - its especially reshaping of whole world (not even mentioning making a new one). 2-3 weeks of hard work for one zone, don't expect less, if you want whole zone reshaped. And thats just noggit work, then comes quest design, NPC and gob spawning...

Making a whole new spell (and talent/skill?) system is something extremely abitious, too. Like I said, you have few random internet kids and some overgrown kids. You won't get new spell system. You will much more likely get bunch of half-working spells with absolutely ridiculous (no) balance.

Thirst and hunger - while this system is quite easy to make, I personaly always hated this, and very, very much. When I'm playing a game, I want to be entertained. I want to do something I can't in real life. Eat, dring, p**s and s***t... eh, I can do such things in real life. In the end, such systems tend to be just another, useless burden for players to deal with. Much better is some system to encourage them to do something for realistic gameplay. Why having debuffs for not eating? Having buffs (Well Fed, but empowered) for the same would be much, much more player-friendly. Similiar applies to death system. I will give you one another example here. Blizzard wanted to give players a lot of experience from killing, but this exp boost would be reduced whenever they were playing for longer time (exp fatigue system). This idea was very unsuccesful and hated. But then, Blizzard changed it, and rested bonuses came. In the end, players were leveling up at the SAME SPEED, but were happy for rested bonuses, were looking at them like they were some sort of gift and loved them. Exp fatigue looked to them like bullshit to annoy them. But, again, in the end, there was no difference, just that players were much more happy.

[Martinus]

"Work on yourself...

... much more happy."

Greetings, Amaroth!

If I am correct, you are the one who was working, as I have seen in the videos, on concepts of Arathor, Erutia and Nimer. I appreciate your reaction on this matter, as a reaction of the one experienced and skilled in these doings. I am, therefore, recieving and understand your message as a valued and competent one.

I thank you in advance for answering many of my questions, despite they were not explicitly stated. Your reasoning have provided me with the insight for which I was looking for, as it is a key point in determining the possibility of realisation of such a idea.

Personally, I do not aspire for owner- or leadership as much as for seeing such a thing done. I am just sometimes intrigued how would it be to see a World of Warcraft more in accord with its predecessors - to know that it is indeed it.

It is few years since I have tryed modding - if I can call it so - in World of Warcraft, but I was not even able to get through the programs. Main factors were that my computer was not sufficient and I have had not enough knowledge of their workings. Therefore I am at least hoping that someone else might be inspired with the ideas and incorporate it into his work.

In relation to your review of the concept:

I restate the notion contained within my introductory paragraphs of this message - I appreciate and value your review. I now have a better insight into the current modding possiblities and potentials, as I am not familiar with the situation within this kind of community.

I have supposed that it will possibly be a project, which might take years to finish. So, as the problem is being discussed in detail, I now specify some of the ideas:

1. Reshaping the World
As it would be more difficult to create a new World (from nothing, as I understand it, in contrast to just working on the existing one), the concept can be reduced on just reshaping the existing one. But the requirements shoud be the same:
a) from global perspective to be in shape of the world as depicted in the image contained within my first     message;
b) from regional perspective the geographical dispositions shoud correspond those seen in maps of Warcraft III - I;
c) localities should be based on the dispositions from scenarios of Warcraft III.

2. Quest design
I would like that there would be some repeatable quests, which would make a main body of questing (as depicted in the case of an "orc character and his starting possiblities"). These quests will serve to secure economic standing of a character as well as social one (after certain amount of repetition, Player can have access to more difficult and responsible quests).

The other type of quests will be a class-determination ones: Player can serve a local blacksmith by providing him with materials, forging or doing additional work regarding given proffesion. Through this process he will learn himself to be a blacksmith. The same will work with the magecraft or combat skills. It can be seen even in the original game, but here, the interaction, dependency and depth will be more present.

3. Spell, talent and skill system
I would not like to stress on balance, or at least in the way it is solved in the original game. It is one of the factors I believe were implemented at the expense of the lore, situation and dispositions in the World (1 versus 1 faction system in order to ensure balance, equal number of races, relative distance kept between the starting areas and their location as well as the location of other areas and more, unique role of classes [each class is in principle based on the same type of game, only visual effect is and type of combat is different but each class ultimatelly follows the same route {mage hunting pigs, paladin starting as an ordinary peasant with a wooden hammer, warlock included in society in which he is lore-wise unacceptable} and does the same]).

The system of spells should be as following:
a) Each character starts (as stated) as a generic member of a given race, with basic (generic) abbilities to perform (simple strikes, blocks, kicks). In addition for imagination: Tauren will have more life, be faster and deal more damage, than a gnome, but this inbalance can be solved by few explosives the gnome creates.
b) The effectiveness of an ability will increase with greater strength of Character, which in turn is increased by performing physical exercise (dealing or even recieving damage will increase strength).
c) Spells will be learned from trainers or objects or might be learned by self-training. The system can be based on system of professions (blacksmithing, fishing...). There will be ingredients for spells, some may provide insight on functioning. Increased skilling and using of spells increases maximum skill which in turn automatically teaches new spells in the process with the respective description of requirements (reagents, locations...) to cast a spell. The same system may apply for normal combat abilities (punches, kicks, blocks...).
d) I have faith in those random juvenile or maturing persons.

4. Thirst, hunger and burdens
a)The system of thirst and hunger may require to eat 3 times a day in order to evade the effects of the Thirst "debuff" (if I understand this term correctly) and the Hunger "debuff".  It means that the character will be fed or not thirsty for about 6 hours after eating or drinking and be safe from the effects of hunger or thirst respectively.
b) In addition, hunger and thirst will not be fatal - they will only drain Energy (mana), which is required for health regeneration and perfoming actions (attacks, absorbing damage, casting spells). Therefore the player in the sake of his own aspirations should search for food and drink. If not, he/she can play, but will be more vulnerable.
c) If someone would wish to hasten life-regeneration process, he, or she, should search for special means to do so: first aid (as in reality), healing spells, heling herbs (which can also feed the Character) and other means.

This concept seems to me more logical and realistic

5. Death system
This concept is more complex and I can reserve a particular place for it, for, as you have stated also in relation to the other ideas, it may prove to be a very difficult one to perform. So I will explain this only if a sufficient interest is shown.


I thank you for your analysis, Amaroth - know that I highly appreciate it. As I have noted: I have had this idea in my mind for a longer time and now I have decided to to discuss it with competent persons for their opinion.

[spik96]

That's the project of my dreams. But never forget dreams are dreams.
Divide what you want to do in steps.
Each "step" must be playable. Not perfect, but playable. Like major updates.
There are small edits than can add to classic Warcraft lore consistency :
- Make Night Elves and Undead unplayable. (Remove from the UI if you can but NOT a priority).
- Put Night Elves neutral and Undead hostile to everybody.
- Put other Horde and Alliance races neutral between them.
- Edit the World with details. Details. You should not need to move existing NPCs due to your change, because you'll do that later.
- So, do the light things before adding new content. The idea should be : keep what is good enough.

Then, you can add content. New quests. But not only new quests. You should start by editing current non logical quests. Add first in the texts what you want to see in game. Only once the story is told you can start to make it appear live.

Think small or you'll never get something big.
Plus : if your work is public the division by steps could allow someone else to take up your work if you appeared to leave the community, die, or whatever.

[Amaroth]

Well Martinus, I can only wish you to make as many dreams real as possible. In the end, you just need to love what you are working on and to not forget why are you doing that. Like I said, there are still plenty of both good and possible to be made ideas, you will see how succesful you will be. I'm looking forward for updates, once again, good luck.

[Martinus]

"That's the project of my dreams..."

Greetings, spik96,

I thank also you for your contribution to the topic. I see that you align yourself with the general idea - you are more than welcome here.

I admit that the actual methodics with exact steps has not been chosen yet. It is why I have also intended to present it to you for opinions and reviews for potential additional ideas and means of realisation. As you have possibly noticed, I am upgrading my initial post (in its footing is a time and reason of the update) with the ongoing discussion and responding according to the queries, as many of my ideas may not come to my mind in the given moment and it may take a longer to time to present a whole concept, while some details may not be neccessary to present here and can be solved afterwards, thus saving time for efective discussion.

Also, I am considering playability of each idea from perspective of a player (as I was only a player), thus I am working only with the phenomenal side of gaming mechanics and am not familiar with their actual technical character and workings. This is why I also submit this matter here to a critique from those of you who are skilled and knowledgable in technical side of gaming mechanics, as it can be seen from the contribution of the respectable Amaroth, who has provided an insight exactly from this perspective.

Regarding the merit of your kind entry:

1. Playable races

1.1 The Night Elves
I would like to keep the Night Elves playable. The reasons are as following:
a) Their role is already well established in Warcraft III.
b) Their society and setting provides an unique, exclusive and important experience.
c) In relation the role and importance mentioned in the previous points, the whole situation of Northen Kalimdor creates a conditions for specific kind of gameplay.
d) They have, at least, my favor.
e) Also, if the "Monolith" (When Creeps Attack) idea will be incorporated, I would like to provide an experience which may be taken more personally from the position of a Night Elf. This will also be one of the major topics for Night Elves.

1.2 Undead
I express my identification with your proposition, however, with the following positions for consideration:
a) Undead Scourge, probably, shall not be a playable faction. However, I have also considered this point in the mentioned Death system, which may actually allow the player (as a Ghost)  to be risen by the powers of the Scourge and possibly join them (The Character Ghost will not have Life, only Energy. Its Energy diminishes if moving away from its corpse [Ghost starts at the corpse], and replenish while at the corpse. It can, also, increase or replenish its Energy by using unique abilities on other Ghosts [players or non-playable charactes, or even on living beings] and draining their Energy or relocating to the other sources which radiate Energy. With more Energy, the more abilities are accesible to the Ghost, some of which allow interaction with the Material world [dealing damage to the living Characters, appearing as a visible Ghost for a period of time and other]. In relation to the Undead Scourge, the player can be found to be dead by the Lich King [in that case a Game Master controlling the Lich King {and possibly the Scourge operations}], or other necromancers and offered Enegy or revival in exchange for servitude.).
b) The Forsaken can be a playable faction, but their role and position will be minor to the one they hold in original game. They will be alone and fighting a desperate and rebelant battle for survival in the ruins of the former Kingdom of Lordaeron.

2. Relations
Neutrality between the Horde and former Human Expedition forces should exist. The same applies in their relations with the Night Elves. The Undead Scourge and the Forsaken will be hostile to each other and any other faction. Inhabitants living in Lordaeron, Khaz'Modan and Azeroth will be unaware of the situation in Kalimdor (except of those who have had an encounter with the Night Elves on their hunt for Illidan). In relation to this there will be no Night Elves', new Horde's, or Theramore forces' presence on the eastern continents.

3. World Editing
I understand, but even that is not within my capacity to perform and yes - if there will be any work done, I would like it to be secure for the developement and use of others.

Well Martinus, I can only wish you to make as many dreams real as possible. In the end, you just need to love what you are working on and to not forget why are you doing that. Like I said, there are still plenty of both good and possible to be made ideas, you will see how succesful you will be. I'm looking forward for updates, once again, good luck.

I thank you again, Amaroth,

even if not all ideas will be incorporated - especially those complex ones - some vital for lore re-habilitation can be included. I can conceptually divide the idea into three models, if considering the possibilities for execution:

1. Model: the most demanding, with the World created larger and most systems incorporated.
2. Model: more demanding, with only World re-shaped and some systems incorporated.
3. Model: The World remains nearly untouched, with just minor terrain and object changes, only few story related quests will be changed and NPCs relocated, removed or added)

In that 3. Model of the World, those minor changes can touch, for instance, the following:
a) NPCs at Tidus Stair (The Barrens) will be removed and replaced by Samuro, the Orc Blademaster.
b) Raptors and Lions in the Barrens will be removed and replaced respectively by Wildkin (Moonkin/Owlkin/Owlbear creatures). Also the Raptor Grounds to the west from Northwatch Hold will represent a place, where Samuro fought with Bloodbeak, thus serving as a Wildkin nesting place.
c) Thunder Lizards will be green.
d) Valley of Trials may better serve as Thunder Ridge than the actual Thunder Ridge, wich can be a place where a Kobold, Nogrinn Onetooth was.
e) Skull Rock can be Orgrimmar Tunnels, with Kobolds and the Horde mining and dredging operations.
f) The place where Rexxar battled warlocks can be to the south from the Skull Rock, on the solitary and unpopulated mountain with cliffs and rocks.
g) Tiragarde Keep should be transformed to a more simple establishment, resmebling the one seen in the mission "To Tame a Land". The Humans there, however, will be only loading the remains and preparing to depart from Durotar to Theramore.
h) Dustwind Cave above Razor Hill can be The Beast Den, where Rexxar fought Quilboars and Satyrs. Now, it can serve as a place where the last surviving Satyr of the mentioned sect resides and reanimated the Quilboars. The Satyr can be Bazzalan and undead Quilboars can be used from Razorfen Downs.
h) Murlocs can live in Southfury River.
h) Echo Isles will have creatures like Bats, Hydras, Murlocs (enslaved by the evil Mur'gul Tyrant). Hydra, Sea Giant, Spider Crab Behemoth can be like a minor world bosses there. This part is meant to be a reference to the Echo Isles in Warcraft III. Aditionally, there will be no rebelious Trolls. The destroyed village on Echo Isles (pre-Pandaria) is the one destroyed by Admiral Proudmoore's fleet. The one, which originally contains Zalazane, will be a normal Troll settlement with Vol'jin.
i) Furbolgs will be better defined by color: White Furbolgs will be the Polar ones, living in Northrend in Warcraft III. Brown Furbolgs will live in most of Northern Kalimdor, while the Black Furbolgs will live in Darkshore.
j) Dark Trolls should be incorporated.
k) Nighthaven will be a Night Elf capital.
l) Black Dragonflight, which can be encountered through out the Central Kalimdor, will be based in Maraudon, and might be a source behind the Centaur aggresive nature.
m) And more.

Indeed, I will upload the content and also be looking forward to your opinions.

[sshroud]

Commendable effort, but please, practice brevity. This is ridiculously stiff and verbose and it reads like a legal statement from  a lawyer.

The sentiment is nice, might be an interesting idea too, but you need to reduce the scope and write this in a more readable format.

[Amaroth]

I also thought this guy should be a novelist

[Martinus]

Commdendable effort...

I wish you a good day, sshroud!

If you are initially relating to the concept, then I understand your position as a recognition of a hardly realisable idea. And indeed I have meant, as this topis is in such a stage, to be official as now I am making mainly public declarations. Nevertheless, I am always serious in my doings.

In these days, I am working on the "step by step" part of the project, as also spik96 in his kind contribution has suggested. I wish to post a thread in the recruitment section of the forums to see the potential of possible interest to work on the project. I intend to describe there an extent of expected work in greater detail, so each interesant can adequately consider his or her participation.

As you have also noted, as well as Amaroth before, I have decided to reduce the concept on the so-called 2. Model of the World, as it was described in my previous messages. For now, this concept incorporates the following general changes in the World of Warcraft:

a) There will not be any new World created, but only the existing one will be transformed to better corespond Warcraft III and its preceding games.
b) Non-playable characters should undergo change, as some may require relocation, replacement, removal or change in countenance or behavior.
c) Quests will possibly require the same modification.
d) Concerning the skill, spell and talent systems, these, if proved to be extensively demanding on modification, can functionally and systematically remain in the same condition, with only "stats" changed to accomodate the new creature strength system.
e) Creature (all playable and non-playable entities) should be modified to change effectiveness in combat (Ogres should always be strong as an Ogre, no matter where they appear [existing Duskwood Ogres or Badlands Ogres will be relativelly equal in combat {an Ogre with a club will deal more damage than an Ogre fighting with bare hands}]). Therefore, a particularly fearsome creature (dragon, Ancient, even an Ogre), should always be a feared one. This should also be a more realistic and experiencing criterion for Players to consider while encountering any creature in the world, creating a real-world respect for each kind of creature.
f) Together with the thirst, hunger (actually, eating and drinking might not cancel the hunger and thirst respectivelly, but merely regenerate Energy and therefore overlap the hunger or thirst effect) and burden (the more items is character carring [metal armor will be heavier than cloth or leather, but much more protective], the more his speed will be slowed down) system, I wish to also increase fall damage.
g) Weapons should deal damage adequate to their nature and use (a sword should always be more effective in inflicting damage than a dagger, if compared in the same kind of use [in original game, a sword of lower lever is less effective than a generic, non-special dagger of higher lever]).

I thank you for your review, sshroud, and appreciate any critique which might prove helpful. You are more than welcome for any kind of further contribution you see fit.

I also thought this guy should be a novelist

I recieve it as a compliment, dear Amaroth! I am also hoping that you are doing well in these days.

[sshroud]

Well, what can I say, it's hard not to be a fan of this when you're being so kind.    I think many of us share some fondness for the "old world" in the Warcraft universe. You've put some interesting ideas on the table and I think it would be intriguing to see them implemented.

Generally speaking, I think the challenge with the proposed systems will be in design and not technical. I'm skeptical of the hunger system, from a gameplay perspective I think it's a nuisance distracting you from getting to your business, especially in a goal-oriented game like WoW. I can see it from a realism perspective, but I think that type of realism is something WoW inherently can't provide,  instead it would probably be better to distill the features into what is considered essentially for the experience you wish to offer people.

I'm curious what your vision is from a macro perspective, will this be a singleplayer experience? If not, do you wish to emphasize any MMORPG elements? What do you have in mind for endgame?

Personally, I think it's a cool project to pursue, even for the sentiment alone. I've been doing quite some extensive modding myself, such as creating dungeon environments, only as personal project for myself though, but I'd be happy to share my thoughts and experiences, if you won't mind.

For example, if you'd ever want to spice things up a bit I've got an idea for you; differentiate the world during night and day, if you've ever played a game like the Ocarina of Time then think of how Hyrule changes during night, with skeletons rising from the ground and roaming around from dusk till dawn. This way you could make day and night feel very different, you could even take it as far as making some places only available during certain times of day (e.g. the doors covering the Quillboar burial grounds, Razorfen Downs, only opening at midnight and closing at sunrise). To pull it off it could help to make days shorter, like 8-10 hours day/night cycles instead of 24. Else some players would never get to experience certain times of the day.

[Martinus]

Well, what can I say...

     Regarding the hunger and thirst system: the main reasons (which I believe correlate with each other) why I would like to implement this system, are following:
     a) Actual experience and association: Making eating and drinking working on more realistic basis enables game to induce an actual experience, through which a Player can trully associate such action with the nature of consumption - an action performed few times a day to keep us fit and ensure regeneration for certain (longer than 20 seconds) time.
     b) In-game role: As being an unique activity with a more extensive content (as it can be situated in different contexts: searching for food, hunting for food, trading food, buying food, begging for food or going to eat and drink together with companions), eating and drinking creates a new and profound possibilies for players to experience in game. In relation to the eating process, a state of being fed can be stacking, with a less saturating food  providing a beneficial effect for shorter duration (example: eating a mouse and eating a boar's leg). Also the time required to consume a bigger food might actually be longer (consumed by stacks [in parts {a mouse can be eaten at once, while boar's leg might require a repeated action}]), therefore providing a space for social events during such a procedure (sitting at campfire or in a tavern), creating an another possibilities for encounters, even a hostile in nature.
     c) Enhancement of gaming experience from combat: By not being able to recieve an immediate regeneration benefits from feeding and drinking as in original World of Warcraft, the frequency of players' engagement in combat might be reduced, thus not making combat a routine. This should increase an actual gaming experience from combat by making it more unique, valuable and respected - as an aspect of game-life which will be regarded, between players, as a true challenge, and does not require players to reduce this experience on raids or arenas to reach that level of experience. This is something, I believe, what actually players seek - going to raids and other locations (searching for situations) which are more demanding, risking and challenging in general. This new concept can be understood as an actual harassment and obstacle in the sense that it might limit players from combat, but it is percieved so only because the element of combat currently lacks significance and therefore requirements and expectations on it are low - as it has become a rutine, and not a serious aspect of a game. I believe this is the one of the lacking or under-estimated elements that might bring some of those desired end-game or other challenging situations to the every-day of gaming life. But it will not end there, as it will actually make the whole World more challenging and difficult to fight through. I do not believe that Player should kill 50 boars, 10 dragons, a whole cave of Ogres and in sum does so on two continents in one day in order to be satisfied. I believe that it is not a number but a quality of combat-related situations which make it interesting.

     In addition to the concept of eating and drinking: If the effect of eating and drinking lasts for 6 hours, the possible time- and resource-consuming requirements are low, for to find a water source or catch a snake or kill a boar in the hills might not be difficult. The effect of eating and drinking should be active (running out) even while being logged-out, while the Hunger and Thirst should be effective only while being logged-in.
     If being effective at the same time (the Character is both hungry and thirsty), it might require 24 hours for Hunger and Thirst to drain all of the Character's Energy, while eating and drinking can, if effective concurrently, regenerate Energy from zero-point to full in 10 minutes.
     Additionally, concerning the water sources, I would wish that all freshwater sources be a locations where a Character can use a drinking ability. And if Player would have a proper container, he can use it in such a locations to fill it with the water for storage.

     Concerning this important "macro perspective" of singleplayer and multiplayer aspects of the game, the World will be challenging and therefore commonly require a joint action. But this new game system is meant to be constructed (with the integration of different gaming mechanics [difficulty to learn a powerful spell incribed only on a stone tablet somewhere in distant land or teachable only after longer study]) to actually allow players to become unique and extremely potent. A sorcerer can become such powerful to destroy a dragon or group of Ogres alone, or overpower other sorcerers. So singleplayer experience is indeed present, but both it and the multiplayer aspect are emphasized, with the latter being more about the social aspect than of a necessity for individual progress and success in the World, though it might prove helpful even in this way. Any Character can, by the new creature strength system and world interaction, become a unique individual and possibly a hero and legend.
   
     Regarding the end-game concept: Original game's end-game concept is defined by actions related to the level cap - all activities are determined by the uniform concept of a level progression. As there will not be a leveling system in this World, the game will not have a common end-game points for all Players and therefore have similar during- and end-game activities for all Players, as the mechanics should provide a particularity.
     Some players, looking for a blacksmithing experience, might focus only on blacksmithing. And this skill (with a more dangerous and therefore challenging World), as each other, can be mastered only by those, who work on it deeply. Existing non-playable character blacksmiths can be replaced by Player charaters, who can petition a proper authority for permission to establish a blacksmith within a location of its influnce (or do so on own risk) or establish a blacksmith in a secluded area. Other Players can seek them for new armaments or reparation of the actual ones (during their absence a common blacksmith can be always present or respawned [called to service, or already serving at the Player's forge]). Others, wanting to became mages, will study books to learn how to cast spells (the book might contain reagents, locations and pre-requisites) or might learn it alone – but this might be a more difficult process. A hunter can become a lone person living in the wild or protecting borders and as the new Strength system permits, few arrows from a novice archer would be enought even for an "originally-considered 60 level" uncareful mage looking for mysteries in the dangerous far places of the World.
     In this sense, the end-game for mage will be the mastering of a mage-craft, by trying to learn the most powerful spells, or after reaching it, to protect his mysteries from the intrusion of others, therefore seeking a solitary place where to work alone, or teach others and establish a mage-guild. Even a mage can re-orient on combat skills or blacksmiting, but this, in process, might decrease his potency of his already attained skills. Or someone can become a good fisherman, knowing a proper season, period and location.

     I have seen your work and it looks indeed impressive. I did not know that the modding community is on such a level to be able to create its own original materials in such an extent, as from my humble perspective of a person not skilled in modding, your dungeon environment appears to me as an independent object and I do not know a lot of persons doing this kind of original work by creating a whole new environment. And yes, your contribution is welcome and valued.

     I share your idea of differetiation of the World by its eventual particulation. It is one of the ideas I consider vital for creation of a unique environment to enable a more extensive gaming experience. I would indeed like to see this aspect incorporated. I can relate this even to the concept of fishing mentioned above, as some fish might appear only in particular season and place or under certain conditions (special food/lure required). So should be even with the haunted areas you have mentioned, with skeletons and ghost appearing in the given location. And your pointing out of a required attention for the real world day cycles is well noted – this is a matter which might, in particular cases, require an individual approach.
     And as Razorfen Downs have been mentioned, I would like to use this opportunity in different context and to inform that those should be situated at the current location of Crossroads, as seen in Warcraft III, and will not be an instanced area, as any other location in the World.

     I thank you again, sshroud, for your constructive and vital contribution to the matter. I believe it is an another step forward towards the realisation of the whole idea.