Color name poll

[stoneharry]

I don't get why people need some cosmetic reward based on someone's arbitrary evaluation to raise their epeen.

Just because you don't understand us doesn't mean we're wrong.
 

People who had coloured names certainly did not know or help more than non-coloured names.

On average they most certainly did. Philly, Phantom, Skarn, Valkryst to name a few. Steff and Schlumpf count too as their Developer color helped distinguish them from being only moderators.

Polls like this will always bias towards the many getting their epeen back.

Yes of course, and those people are also the most active members and most frequent contributors. They're also the people who have been around the longest and helped build this community.

As far as schlumpf's ramble is concerned, I'll once again state that nobody really cares about the banners underneath the names. And it's a part of WoW emulation culture to use colors for usergroups. Nobody here is confused about who is a moderator. There is a legend at the bottom of the page.

Everything you say here is "can I get my pretty colours back". You don't actually give any reason. Community? What, you to make it like back in TBC and Burlex times where select individuals are worshipped as gods in the emulation community because apparently the community is that immature.

I really don't care to argue with random people on the Internet at the end of the day. Perhaps my opinion is wrong but I've certainly been here a very long time and experienced many different aspects of this "community". And I certainly think letting your "community", or player base, or whatever make decisions is pretty much the worst idea for any sort of cooperation/government/entity. People are stupid.

[Milly]

There is really no reason to be this irate about colors. I'm not some greedy person as you seem so inclined to believe.

Honestly, you can take my badge and my color, I no longer deserve them as I've removed my contributions months ago. This isn't about me.

This is less about personal preference and more about the community's success.

I've been around the block a few times. I've seen what these colors can do to people in the many communites I've lead and the ones I've been a part of, including this one. Would you so blatantly deny the fact that cosmetics motivate people to participate and contribute?

Whether you agree with it being a good or bad motive is irrelevant. If we're having an honest discussion about the community's success then it needs to be carefully considered.

Do you want 5 good hearted people who share and expect nothing meaningful in return for their hardwork? Or do you want an army of people who do it for colors and the chance of this community thriving?

[MountainLion]

There is really no reason to be this irate about colors. I'm not some greedy person as you seem so inclined to believe.

Honestly, you can take my badge and my color, I no longer deserve them as I've removed my contributions months ago. This isn't about me.

This is less about personal preference and more about the community's success.

I've been around the block a few times. I've seen what these colors can do to people in the many communites I've lead and the ones I've been a part of, including this one. Would you so blatantly deny the fact that cosmetics motivate people to participate and contribute?

Whether you agree with it being a good or bad motive is irrelevant. If we're having an honest discussion about the community's success then it needs to be carefully considered.

Do you want 5 good hearted people who share and expect nothing meaningful in return for their hardwork? Or do you want an army of people who do it for colors and the chance of this community thriving?

So far you two have made reasonable/valid statements, Stoneharry, Milly. I don't know neither of you as well as I'd like to (which is irrelevant because a moderator should be neutral), but I'll make a call based on what I know right now:

Milly, since you say you no longer contribute to this community, I think that you should no longer continue posting. This is a topic that concerns Modcraft and those who are concerned with Modcrafts success, structure, future, etc. Nothing personal Milly, I just think it is for the best and the most logical thing to do in this case

Stoneharry, let us try to be more considerate of others opinions, however irrelevant or 'stupid' one might think them to be. For example, some people think that a community (in any social aspect of life) ran by the community itself, which decides matters themselves and don't rely on a higher dictating power to govern them, is perfectly fine for them. Some don't, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

What happens is that things can get out of hand and really we can simply avoid all this in the first place. So a solution -which has been proposed- is in effect: A voting poll

Debating is fine, when it is civilized. Yelling does not help. Your vote can speak for you.

To those that have voted already, thank you.  To those that have not voted yet, please feel welcome to do so.
This poll is not yet over, I assume.

Thank you for understanding my points of view.

[Milly]

Milly, since you say you no longer contribute to this community, I think that you should no longer continue posting. This is a topic that concerns Modcraft and those who are concerned with Modcrafts success, structure, future, etc. Nothing personal Milly, I just think it is for the best and the most logical thing to do in this case

What you say here contradicts everything I just stood for in this thread. I said that I removed the uploads that gave me a Contributor rank, not that I no longer contribute at all. As a matter of fact I'm here watching this forum and participating almost 16 hours a day, all week long. I help wherever I can so long as I know the answers, and I can honestly say that I genuinely care about the modding community. My arguments here are entirely about Modcraft's future.

By saying this to me, you're effectively stating that people without status probably should not speak here. It is condescending, unprofessional, and is in essence a counterproductive way to respond to a thread about ranks.

If Steff or whomever would like to restore my posts, I welcome them to do so. I do not have backups of these and whatever happened 3 months ago which you weren't even involved in should not invalidate my right to speak.

[stoneharry]

There is really no reason to be this irate about colors. I'm not some greedy person as you seem so inclined to believe.

Honestly, you can take my badge and my color, I no longer deserve them as I've removed my contributions months ago. This isn't about me.

This is less about personal preference and more about the community's success.

I've been around the block a few times. I've seen what these colors can do to people in the many communites I've lead and the ones I've been a part of, including this one. Would you so blatantly deny the fact that cosmetics motivate people to participate and contribute?

Whether you agree with it being a good or bad motive is irrelevant. If we're having an honest discussion about the community's success then it needs to be carefully considered.

Do you want 5 good hearted people who share and expect nothing meaningful in return for their hardwork? Or do you want an army of people who do it for colors and the chance of this community thriving?

So far you two have made reasonable/valid statements, Stoneharry, Milly. I don't know neither of you as well as I'd like to (which is irrelevant because a moderator should be neutral), but I'll make a call based on what I know right now:

Milly, since you say you no longer contribute to this community, I think that you should no longer continue posting. This is a topic that concerns Modcraft and those who are concerned with Modcrafts success, structure, future, etc. Nothing personal Milly, I just think it is for the best and the most logical thing to do in this case

Stoneharry, let us try to be more considerate of others opinions, however irrelevant or 'stupid' one might think them to be. For example, some people think that a community (in any social aspect of life) ran by the community itself, which decides matters themselves and don't rely on a higher dictating power to govern them, is perfectly fine for them. Some don't, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

What happens is that things can get out of hand and really we can simply avoid all this in the first place. So a solution -which has been proposed- is in effect: A voting poll

Debating is fine, when it is civilized. Yelling does not help. Your vote can speak for you.

To those that have voted already, thank you.  To those that have not voted yet, please feel welcome to do so.
This poll is not yet over, I assume.

Thank you for understanding my points of view.

Reading your post is why I hate ranks.

"Look at me, I may be a moderator but MY OPINION".

I don't value your opinion and I don't agree with you. I don't think a poll is the correct solution - people are stupid.

Perhaps my posts come across as rude. They are just to the point, no beating around the bush. And cynical.

[MountainLion]

Ok that's fine guys, I can't say I didn't try.

You are entitled to your opinions, to your points of view and to think you are always right. This includes the way you feel about what I said.

No hard feelings on my end, happy modding

[TheBuG]

Couldn't care less.

If I'm interested in a person, it's because of his work, not because of the color of his username.

[schlumpf]

Do you want 5 good hearted people who share and expect nothing meaningful in return for their hardwork? Or do you want an army of people who do it for colors and the chance of this community thriving?

As this is in the end what we have been doing for the last five years: yes

[Allifeur]

. I don't think a poll is the correct solution - people are stupid.

Perhaps my posts come across as rude. They are just to the point, no beating around the bush. And cynical.

 While I agree with you that numbers do not tell the truth about what is better, you can't just come with this overly arrogant point of view and disregard the general opinion. You must consider the fact that people might look at things differently. Let's go kind of off-topic, and take exemple from something more general that will help me getting on my point :

 Let's imagine a friend of you is very angry because you forgot to wish him an happy birthday; you were not intending any harm, you just forgot : After all, it is just a day like any other else. You would feel like your friend is childish to be mad about that kind of things, and you would be right. Nevertheless, the birthday is a symbol of other values in his mind, by not wishing him an happy birthday, this is what he understands unconsciously : "I refuse your social code, I disregard your integrity as an individual and ignore your progression, you're not important to me".

 Is it still stupid on his part ? Of course if it is, but since we're social animals, we must consider these things, and not act like if they don't exist. It's the same here : Even if you don't give any credit to these colors (or social ranking in general), it doesn't mean they are purely cosmetic. Milly isn't angry about losing the color itself, but losing what it implies : a symbol of social reconnaissance and an easy community classification.

 Yet, a color has NEVER been the key for being worshiped : it is at the very most a way to help new people out knowing who's a developper, who's an artist, who is an useful active member, etc... The color is valorizing some kinds of message contents, yet its actual contribution is very small. In the end you will look at individuals specificaly and not these colors anymore. So yeah, I would understand people not caring about the subject, I don't care much about colors either, but I still think they are important.

[kojak488]

Couldn't care less.

If I'm interested in a person, it's because of his work, not because of the color of his username.

To further that, this site's name colors is not even an evaluation of skill or contribution as others suggested.  I lost my name color because I made a comment that the gatekeepers to name colors didn't like.  They removed it because of that, not because I suddenly became less skilled or contributed less.

[Valkryst]

Couldn't care less.

If I'm interested in a person, it's because of his work, not because of the color of his username.

Agreed.

[Bardh]

Colors,ranks,badges are just to distinguish active users,contributors,moderators etc. from simple users, and when I see my name same with Milly or Stoneharry or any other contributor its wierd, considering what they and I have done.In my few posts I've seen that most of the comments are made by the contributors and yes I used to appreciate and pay attention to them much more than to the others, I want to say that coloured names don't make people better or "special" they are just what they are, contributors or moderators and I think it even makes it much easier for the newbies to understand easier who has done more and who less.
Btw a contributor remains a contributor no matter that he/she is not contributing anymore, that doesn't mean that he/she can't post anymore or all his/her posts should be deleted.English is not my native so forgive for any mistakes.

[XxXGenesisXxX]

Do you want 5 good hearted people who share and expect nothing meaningful in return for their hardwork? Or do you want an army of people who do it for colors and the chance of this community thriving?

As this is in the end what we have been doing for the last five years: yes

This is my only problem with this whole situation (minus the ugliness of the current blue): I have no idea wtf direction Modcraft is trying to go in?

One minute there is a post about encouraging people to write guides to attract audience and help out the new guys. The next you make it harder to distinguish between new and old or even if new people are around and active. Nor is there context about how this is integrated positively in the future, as if there was a plan more so than just lowering arrogance.

As far as I can tell, no one has commented on the index page, no one has mentioned that despite it being the most viewed page on the website (presumably), it is presented with a bunch of people replying to people. There are no badges, there are no titles, there is nothing but an average Joe, replying to an average Joe. Some new people will see that as less threatening, but a good deal more who have looked at numerous modding sites will assume it's leeches sucking on a dead corpse.

There is no context for a new person, they see what they see and their retention is generally based off that alone. They are not going to see a topic announcing everyone is equal here. They are going to see a board index, with what they will assume is filled with leeches.

Again, I would be fine with this whole thing if I knew that there was purpose behind it besides reducing dick tugging and morality. If I knew this would be integrated in some form of positive manner.

To top it off, everyone is so fucking negative. Stop replying to "The badges show skill" with "No they don't, they are too inaccurate for that". You are still discussing a topic being beaten to death, yet you in your negative response just opened and refused to humor the more positive approach written. If you have a problem with their accuracy why are you not striving to make more accurate and less arbitrary titles? Or for the love of god at least discussing it.

Why are we not discussing the future of this (on both fronts), I could write a program tonight that deletes system32 and release it in a week under a new account, new people would be none the wiser. What is the solution to that? Is there a plan to how tools will be regulated (and how newbies will know to trust it) and if not, why aren't we discussing that instead of this bullshit ego/no ego battle.

What I am trying to say is, there is no out-liner for this particular change, nor does it make any sense to be released pre-website change. Or at the very least, when the websites changes addressed in "Modcraft community" thread start occurring, how will issues like these be addressed then. I don't give two shits about whether "such and such" does or does not like peoples names having colors, I want to talk about whether the colors are good for Modcraft as a website, or better yet Modcraft as a future iteration of a website.

All of this for the sake of ego, be it the perspective of not liking the ego the titles bring, or the perspective of comfort of the ego in the titles. When realistically we are using screen names which are by nature a personification anyway...

As mentioned, I hate negative replies with 0 constructive input, so here is a suggestion:

I am unsure as to how many people came up with and discussed this change before it was put in place. But it clearly has flaws that were not discussed and planned for. Nor was the manner in which it was released and brought to everyone handled very well either.

What I propose is a small hidden forum (consisting of staff and a few more people) in which these can be discussed and fleshed out before being released including how to handle this publicly (A.K.A adding context to the future of this). Blizzard doesn't just have 3 management members go: Here's the patch changes, release it. They have a board of people discuss it after a series of specific people come up with the idea.

[stan84]

from my point of view, i 'm don't care of colors on myself , but it's helpful for recognizing members in their skill progress. Since beginning i'm still white and still happy with it. My vote is: yes keep the colors.

[Steff]

Why are we not discussing the future of this (on both fronts),

We did

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:26 am I started the thread.
I have written that i collect all the idea in the main post. There the color thing was noted many days.
And after i started doing the first point on the list. It started

Also as you can soo on the vote .. the contributor color will come back.
And I fear already about the discussion that the color dont fit

I want to get the best for this site. The problem is that members ahve opposit tast.
Thats why this is just a poll and the most votes will democraticly get it.

Thats why I don´t understand why there is anything to discuss.

- We got the request from some new guys that the colored names are irritetating
- We added to discuss list
- Waited some days and no post against it
- Changed it
- Got request that it is not good
- Did a poll to let the bigger side decide

Done.

And now. Any other ideas and suggestions how to make Modcraft better.
For new people
For old people

And also offers to do some of this work is always welcome

Please use the Community thread for this. This is closed.