Why Armor in WoW sucks so much compared to other games

[Jack]

Although this is a thorn that has been in my side a long time it has resurfaced recently as I tried to create a new armor (no recolor but actually one from scratch).
Anyways, this thread isn't supposed to be a rant about how much I hate World of Warcraft but rather to inform the community about what restrictions they have to cope with or at least keep in mind when designing or actually drawing a new armor texture.

Sadly I know of quite a lot of people in the scene that have never dealt much with other games and consider WoW to be the ultimate game in every respect, which it is not - by far, so I'm going to do a simple comparison with my favourite "Itz s0o mouch b3tTer!!11"-game Guild Wars 1... (Note: this is about the time Eluo will start vomiting when reading this post :ufu: )

BUt since he already knows it is you other readers that might be asking themselves now

What's so bad about WoW armors?

1. Badly stretched UV maps
Don't be afraid if you don't know what UV maps are, I will explain this a little bit and the pictures pretty much speak for themselves.

UV maps combine a 3d mesh (model without texture) with a 2d graphic (the texture). The UV maps are sort of the "how the 2d graphic is wrapped around the 3d object" and also "which part of the texture goes on which part of the object".

Since the Armors of WoW are a texture directly layed over the skin texture the UV mapping has a tremendous effect on the quality of the armor. Well at least if it's stretched like there were no tomorrow, which is the case in WoW. What does stretched mean? Those pictures will clarify that for you:

The 2d graphic / texture is IN ALL CASES the same: a perfect B/W checkerboard, like this


Normally the texture is evenly distributed over the 3d model, which means that with the texture wrapped onto the model all squares should be about the same size (which means each part of the model has the same displayed resolution) and also there shouldn't be any stretching (squares should be squares even if they're rotated a bit, not anything else) as you can see in this screenshot:



(If you looked very closely you can actually see a little bit of stretching on the back side of her upper left arm, directly next to her shoulder there are rectangles not squares!)

Now this wouldn't be a thread about WoW modding without WoW, so how are the UV maps of WoW models then?



Now I didn't change anything about the model or UV maps here, I simply exported the model with Modelviewer, loaded it in 3dsMax and assigned a new texture (the checkerboard) to it.

There is heavy stretching all over that model. The fact that the head has got a higher resolution compared to the rest of the body doesn't say that much, it's pretty obvious why that is. Anyways...STRETCHING!!

Now if you don't really have Photoshop CS3+ extended or BodyPaint 3d or anything similar (and thus aren't able to paint on models directly) you'd have to paint on the texture instead and then try producing even something crappy like this:



Especially note the golden ring on the model and then take a good look where it's situated on the texture. Also, the little black stripe on the side of the boots...it's diagonal on the texture, whereas back and front of the boot are somewhat aligned horizontally.

For those still asking yourself how bad the UV stretching on WoW models is simply try adding a nice tribal tattoo on the model using only the texture file.

To illustrate this even further I added captions and a bike on the texture and also saved you a screenshot of how it looks on the model afterwards (Take a careful look at how the bike on the arm resembles more crop circles than a bike and also at the size of the "str" compared to the rest in the word "lolstretching")

[Jack]

2. Unrealistic Animations

Yes, this does really have an impact on what you're able to do when creating armors and what you can't.

Besides the fact that animations will always stretch the mesh/model in some parts during the animation (and thus creating the same stretching effect we encountered earlier) there is a far bigger restriction to watch out for created by some of WoW's Animations concerning the shoulders and the head (not really a problem with the textures but it's a part of why armor sucks in WoW)

I'll just throw you some pictures and it pretty much speaks for itself. (To fix this Problem Blizzard would have to deal with something I will talk about later)



These clipping bugs totally suck and force you into being quite uncreative, always creating a similar shoulderpad without much ornaments (unless you don't give a shit about clipping bugs)

[Jack]

3. Symmetry

About the most stupid idea Blizzard has ever had is to add symmetry to their textures. While this might save a lot of data space (a thing which isn't needed nowadays anymore -not even in MMORPGs-, which also proves that WoW is out of date since long) it is a giant killer for totally epic looking armor.

Why is that you ask? No person in Real life is symmetrical. You might think they are but in fact they aren't, and this asymmetry is responsible for triggering a simple thought in our minds: "that's beautiful".
Symmetrical things can look good, but they will never by far look as good to our eyes as asymmetrical things.

Finally this is where GW1 comes into play:
(Sorry for the bad quality I didn't feel like screenshotting it myself so I took pics from the GW wiki)




If you look closely you will see that there are always freckles or patches of shadow on one side of the face but not on the other (or even giant details like the eye patch, scar or missing eye). This creates a much better look instead of all the mirrored face of WoW.

You might think now that unless you want to create tattoo patterns as armor this won't really affect you? Well asymetrical armor is possible and does look a thousand times better than simply mirrored, you just lack the comparison because all armor in WoW uses this symmetry, you will always find only one side of the armor on the texture file.

For those not believing in asymmetrical armor take a look at the next chapter you will see examples later on.

[Jack]

4. Geoset Restrictions

There is a point in this headline being red and bigger than the others because the (negative) effect of this is by far bigger than any other previously mentioned fact.

As with UV Maps most people here won't know what Geosets are so I will show you briefly.

Geosets can be described as parts of a model whereas some geosets can be summed up into one group of geosets. In WoW roughly only one geoset per group can be loaded at the same time.
To explain this I think it's best to illustrate it.

In Modelviewer I activated the Model Control (View > Show Model Control) to be able to hide and unhide geosets.







I bet now you know roughly what Geosets are so now I can show you why the way Blizzard does it is pretty shitty compared to other games.

There are two aspects we have to focus on to solve this mystery:

First of all there is a heavily restricted number of geosets per group available for you to work with.



Blizzard is using the same ~5 geosets of their gloves again and again, a few hundred glove items share those same ~5 geosets. That's one big point why after playing WoW a few months you will start to feel that somehow all armors are kind of looking the same.

Additionaly there are ~5 glove geosets, ~5 boots geosets 2 major pants geosets (pants and robe), 1 belt geoset but absolutely NO geoset for the chest other than the default.

Second of all the geosets are not animated seperately but stuck to bones.
The result of this is that you will not be able to create armor going over several sections of the body.
You won't think of this as something major but after taking a look at the following pictures you will see that this is similar to shooting yourself in the legs before participating at a marathon.

[Jack]

Now that you know about the stuff in theory we're up for the fun part!

(I'm no asshole my comparison to the GW1 content you're about to see is 100% legitimate because: the content I chose has been created at the same TIME (not WoW 2005 <> GW 2010 but both 2005) as well as it shares the same production TYPE (both hand painted!)

Amount of Different Geoset Groups:

(Note: As this section created quite some butthurt for schlumpf I will point out that a) Head and Shoulder aren't really Geosets in WoW but are counted as such in order to compare it and that b) there are more geoset groups in WoW but I summed them up under their respective anatomical groups -as I did with the GW geosets)

GW:
-Head
-Shoulder
-Chest
-Belt
-Pelvis
-Pants
-Boots
-Arms
-Gloves
WoW:
-Head
-Shoulder
-Pants
-Belt
-Boots
-Gloves

Different Number of Geosets per Group:
GW:
-Nearly 100% of the armors don't share a single geoset
WoW:
- ~2-5

Textures:
GW:
- not stretched, Armor Texture seperate and some not symmetrical
WoW:
-heavily stretched, Armor Texture shares same UV Map with Skin, only symmetry

Animations:
GW:
-Geosets animated in Model Animation context
WoW:
-Geosets stuck to bones -> lots of clipping bugs

So much for the wall of text, here's a few pictures.

Starting Gear Time!
Warrior:


(Nicely showing the diversity of geosets)

Warlock/Necomancer:


(The gothic collar is a geoset animated by itself, never would be possible in WoW)

Shaman/Ritualist:


(See the asymmetrical texture on the skin?)

Enjoy never being able to create (or see -blizz-content wise) armor like this in WoW:
(because of the previously mentioned restrictions)


-Not possible in WoW-



Like the gloves? Enjoy your ugly 5 geosets to choose from


Asymetrical Geosets, Lots of Geosets used, Shoulderpads one Geoset

See the scarf going all over shoulders and throat?  :uno: One single animated Geoset


I hope I was able to show you the immense restrictions you have to cope with when creating armor in WoW and maybe this will help you to bypass those problems somehow.
Now I'm ready to deal with a bit of flameing here but keep in mind this is not about wether you like the WoW style or not! This is about the restrictions and why armor in other games is superior to the WoW armor.

[Darcurse]

So have fun making an armour

Very well explained, but I´m a little bit depressed, because now I know that there will not be a creative WoW armour until the end of time :/

[TheBuG]

While I must admit the current geosets in WoW are really a shame, the style of WoW gear is much more appealing to me than GW's gear. Though if you'd mix the possibilities of GW with for example Judgement armor you'd get something really awesome.

[SirFranc]

I wonder if would be possible to make custom models with custom geosets... and then redo the items (for custom server i speak ofc) calling for that geoset... that would be fairly good

and yes I FUCKING HATE the simmetry on wow... is just lame (along with the lame wrapping, i tried to make good textures at least for npcs... not a chance..)
Even custom npc models (like varian or kalec or alextratza or sylvanas) have to be symmetrical...
And animations are blocky and outdated

I already knew all of those limitations... are lame indeed : /

Would be great to redo custom models with more geoset and a not symmetrical texture (perhaps calling two textures instead of one, one for each half)

BTW it's also true that the other MMO look all the same between themselves, they may got different armors but well.. L2, Gw, and all the others look quite the same XD would be good to have decent looking armors (like the valley of heroes ones, that i always loved expecially Turalyon's < guess would be doable adding geosets to legs and upper arm?)

[Jack]

You're totally right on that  
It WOULD be possible to create armors such as those of the other games but that would mean you'd have to:
-create a new race model without symmetrical and crappy unwrapping (+animations, bones, faces etc)
-create new models for the whole armor (add them as geosets afterwars
-if nescessary animate the geosets where problems with the animation pop up

Plus I'm not sure but I think there's a restricted number of geosets thus a very limited number of armors would be the result. As well as the converters...well they should work but only ~2-3 people actually got them to work correctly  :ugly:
Also: this race wouldn't be able to wear Blizz Content Gear (except Helms and Shoulders) because the UV mapping WILL not match the one of Blizzard if you don't want that shitty unwrapping and symmetrical layout.

There were actually plans to do that on Elorions Curse but we dropped it because well...it's a fuckload of work to do, especially for one freetime model artist.
Very tempting idea still though.

[SirFranc]

You're totally right on that  
It WOULD be possible to create armors such as those of the other games but that would mean you'd have to:
-create a new race model without symmetrical and crappy unwrapping (+animations, bones, faces etc)
-create new models for the whole armor (add them as geosets afterwars
-if nescessary animate the geosets where problems with the animation pop up

Plus I'm not sure but I think there's a restricted number of geosets thus a very limited number of armors would be the result. As well as the converters...well they should work but only ~2-3 people actually got them to work correctly  :ugly:
Also: this race wouldn't be able to wear Blizz Content Gear (except Helms and Shoulders) because the UV mapping WILL not match the one of Blizzard if you don't want that shitty unwrapping and symmetrical layout.

There were actually plans to do that on Elorions Curse but we dropped it because well...it's a fuckload of work to do, especially for one freetime model artist.
Very tempting idea still though.

Wouldn't be possible to make a model with SAME BONES and nodes and then port the animations? i recall is really doable this, animations would be crappy but... well.. better than nothing? (perhaps using human alpha stance instead of the crappy retail one)
As for sharing the model, we can live with crappy wrapping BUT make it calling two textures instead of one? OR a texture that is 512x1024 (double sized) or simply just adding geosets would be a good thing at least to make new creative armor
Extremely tempting i must say... if i would know such advanced modeling i would help.. and well i had some ideas on making some more geosets.. i'll draw a raw sketch on paint

I'll explain it too:

Apart from hands and boots geoset, the thing would be to add:
Kneepad and leg armor > two types would be fairly enough as blizz added one in WOTLK (T10 armor has them)
Belt: a must have should be the "swashbuckler" belt of alpha model, with all bags on it, and another NORMAL SIZED belt (and not the WWE champion sized belt of wow) and that would be enough too
Armpad: really, blizz, WHY you made me drool on Turalyion statue when you will never add armpads? i guess that a simple extrude would do the job here.
Shoulderpad: to be used UNDER normal shoulders and as basic shoulder (instead of minuscle crappy model) that would be really good too.
Chestpad/collar This would make most leather and plate armor look wikedly cool, i guess that two kinds of geoset for the plate chests and two types of collars (swashbuckler jacket and khadgar's one) would be extremely useful

That's it... i guess that at least adding those new geosets would increase exponentially the thing that could be done on WoW armors

[Jack]

There are two ways of actually coming near those more advanced armors and skin textures:

1. Touching the Race Model (Changing in Modeleditors and converting it back to M2)
Pro:
-Able to Add/Change Animations
-Able to animate Geosets on more than 1 bone -> Armor parts crossing anatomical sections possible
Con:
-Converting (Converters are still pretty hard to handle and might not work)
-Animation Porting needed (unless you want to redo ALL animations) -> might be lots of work
-Skinning and Rigging of all previous Geosets required (might be weeks of work)

2. Not touching it
Pro:
-Fairly simple
Con:
-Clipping bugs, lots of them
-Cross-Anatomical Geosets not possible
-Since 1 Geoset can only be attached to 1 Bone (with the converters I know of) it is not possible to create "new gloves" unless creating 2 different geosets since if not: both left and right hand would move with movements of the left arm)

Cons are visualized here:


Both
-Geosets can be standalone models (-> Unwrapping and Texturing do not have to rely on the stretched and symmetrical race texture layout)

Btw:

(it says "PENIS" on the chest and "U MAD?" on the head but oh well)

[SirFranc]

Meh.. still would have been tempting

[Pinkhair3d]

For the textures, one way to handle the symmetry would be to have a second material with its own textures for the left and right sides with no geometry changes.

[magictrick]

I disagree the complete impossibility. It is possible but not in the way you describe. You are forgetting the fact that you can apply for example spell visual auras on the chest, feet and the hands.

Even blizzard did that. If you take a look at the warlock T5, when the helm is equipped it shows a nice aura around the chest. Now, this aura is some shadowy glow, but it is infact an .m2 with its own animation.

With some creativity you can fabricate for example some nice bracer plates, and when the gloves are equipped it also shows the spellid showing plates attaching to the hands.

Also, left shoulder and right shoulder can be different models aswell (which I'm sure you know).

Don't think I disagree with you, however. WoW's armor system lacks completely. The symmetry, the stretching of the textures and those standard geosets creep me the hell out since the very beginning.

But as for creating custom armor, I suggest you to use auras for those extra touches.

[thesixth]

I totally see your point.
The disturbing thing about wow-armor is that it's stretched over the chest/legs like spandex, regardless of wether it's cloth or platemail.
The spandex effect cannot make any armor look it's part, thus in wow, you add shoulders to make your character look bulky, which leads to totally oversized shoulders and wierd shaped helemts, since that's about the only thing that makes the character stand out. Plus it's too much pink/violet.

;P