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Community => Random => Topic started by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 03:16:45 pm

Title: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 03:16:45 pm
Hey everyone!
I've been on modcraft for approximately 8,5 months now and I noticed that 90% of all the content (including guides, releases, etc) are for 3.3.5 or older versions, and it doesnt make sense to me. I always thought modding is a way to bring new stuff into the game that blizz havent, but why at the same time not use the stuff they did? Obviously, the 5.x.x area can be considered mostly undiscovered, but why ignore cata? Everyday I see giant amount of cata>3.x.x conversions, which shows that the content from Cata is demanded, so why not use cata as a starting poin and then add up to it? I know that cata is very different from wotlk (e.g. dbc structure), but shouldnt modding evolve?

P.S.I have to put this Garrosh pic here
[attachment=0:lazanueq]474f444ed3f527ba07d0e5a50def4b1d.gif[/attachment:lazanueq]
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Ghaster on June 27, 2015, 03:38:25 pm
The emus that are available for expansions higher than wotlk are so broken, that they are not worth spending time modding on. We also know alot more about 3.3.5 than 4.3.4 for example.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: MR. Farrare on June 27, 2015, 03:53:51 pm
335 is better and more easier to edit
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 05:15:51 pm
Quote from: "Ghaster"
The emus that are available for expansions higher than wotlk are so broken, that they are not worth spending time modding on. We also know alot more about 3.3.5 than 4.3.4 for example.
Thats what Im talking about. People choose the easy way instead of trying to evolve.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: spik96 on June 27, 2015, 05:29:20 pm
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
Quote from: "Ghaster"
The emus that are available for expansions higher than wotlk are so broken, that they are not worth spending time modding on. We also know alot more about 3.3.5 than 4.3.4 for example.
Thats what Im talking about. People choose the easy way instead of trying to evolve.

The community evolves. But the development of emus for >3.3.5 is hard and therefore is slow.
And then, with good emus, you still have to develop the tools so the modding community can thrive. It is also a huge and often hard task.
That's not the "easy" way, that's just the best way that has been found so far.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Milly on June 27, 2015, 06:05:05 pm
TrinityCore officially dropped support for Cata and MoP. They will never be developed and there is no point in modding them anymore.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 06:29:52 pm
Quote from: "Milly"
TrinityCore officially dropped support for Cata and MoP
Thats a big shame( Why did they? And what are they saying about newer ones e.g. WoD?
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Rangorn on June 27, 2015, 06:36:32 pm
Author >
[spoiler:19pkgva4](http://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/media/344a7f66143012202280153713_700wa_0.gif)[/spoiler:19pkgva4]

I totally agree with you, since 2011-2012, i'm only modding on Cataclysm, since fall2014 i'm modding on WoD.

I have a private wod server with mapping, yes mapping in 6.x is possible via noggit and a 3.3.5 client, new weapons content, new skins, etc etc....


In my mind, modders have to follow the players, Not the reverse.
3.3.5 is ugly as fuck, and i'm pissed of still watching 3.3.5 stuff in 2015.

Modders are so lazy and want the easy way... that's why i think everything stay on this version...


I'm ready for haters comments.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 06:48:05 pm
Im glad you agree, Rangorn, because it means not only noobs like myself, but also professional moders share this opinion and there might still be hope for the great future of modding)
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Rangorn on June 27, 2015, 06:51:17 pm
I forgot to mention PhilipTNG/ATB and everything he has done (tutoriels, video, show-off, programs etc...)
Maybe with his work, some people will try recents versions, i hope :]
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Alastor on June 27, 2015, 07:45:03 pm
its causet by Expansions it selfs <<<

Vanil ? rly old one ... potencial is really low
TBC ? better but still its second oldest version of wow
LK - Here we go wow became better adn it THIS  tiem appeared most of modding tools so everyone now sticks to LK
Cata came out and wow becamse something else since Hp were raised to 100k not much ppl likes this etc ....
i want to say that i just dont care about expansion that was lame and that same about PANDAS ! THE MOST *sekfepfjegoweg* expansion ...
WOD ? why not .. but i stick to LK cuz everyone is playing LK we can gete everything to LK all servers i know are LK and system is easy WOD is harder to edit ? idk ...
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: bizzlesnaff on June 27, 2015, 09:04:04 pm
Where is the difference ? Create something new in 335 or 4xx or 5xx and also 6xx..its the same..you try to create things that are absolut new. So why not choose the easy way (335)? Thats not laziness, thats smart. You choose the hard way with no benefit instead using the "full supported" 335 content, with scripts, development, tools and a very important point, interested people.
No one like to play on a cata server, and that with a good reason ;)
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Milly on June 27, 2015, 09:07:28 pm
If you guys really want people to switch to WoD, then please reveal the secret of WoD modding. Last time I checked, nobody here knows how to create patches with the new client.

I any case, staying at WotLK is not lazy. As bizzlesnaff says, it is smart.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: axel0099 on June 27, 2015, 09:18:20 pm
I agree with you rangorn etc,WOTLK has been outdated for a longer time than people admit, I'd happily go and work with WOD if there was an easy way of converting ADTs without serious fuck-ups. Please show us your 6.0.0 content and I'll try it myself.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Skarn on June 27, 2015, 09:36:09 pm
Actaully, the __main__ reason no one is doing mods for later expansion is the lack of tools. It is pain in the ass to get your models or zones upconverted to these versions without any bugs.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Rangorn on June 27, 2015, 09:41:17 pm
Okay, as you wish.

New skins with CharSections.dbc http://puu.sh/iES2n/b089ffa61f.jpg (http://puu.sh/iES2n/b089ffa61f.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Switch M2/BLP with another stuff http://puu.sh/iES2R/e574dfaa19.jpg (http://puu.sh/iES2R/e574dfaa19.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

New Mount exported from 6.2 http://puu.sh/iESsU/9d8bcafdca.jpg (http://puu.sh/iESsU/9d8bcafdca.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://puu.sh/hjirD/c253804627.jpg (http://puu.sh/hjirD/c253804627.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://puu.sh/hjhYP/0cb67ab6ee.jpg (http://puu.sh/hjhYP/0cb67ab6ee.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Dark Night :
http://puu.sh/iEQmW/e555c9881a.jpg (http://puu.sh/iEQmW/e555c9881a.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://puu.sh/ifR6e/c59bba2b44.jpg (http://puu.sh/ifR6e/c59bba2b44.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://puu.sh/ifXbu/37cd29314f.jpg (http://puu.sh/ifXbu/37cd29314f.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://puu.sh/ig4vt/d7aabcdcd2.jpg (http://puu.sh/ig4vt/d7aabcdcd2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Mapping :

Ostervin, a city build on the Hrotgar's Landing in icecrown citadel : http://puu.sh/iET0s/b76e826fa0.jpg (http://puu.sh/iET0s/b76e826fa0.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
A campment on Thor Modan with custom area name :  http://puu.sh/iESlt/a165320927.jpg (http://puu.sh/iESlt/a165320927.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://puu.sh/iESnW/60c0cd4552.jpg (http://puu.sh/iESnW/60c0cd4552.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Importing Tanaan jungle from the ptr 6.2 in 6.1 (wip) :
http://puu.sh/iESOZ/97a5458269.jpg (http://puu.sh/iESOZ/97a5458269.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Gameobject Content : All M2 and Wmo from the game spawnable and a custom script for choose size of a m2 with a command :
http://puu.sh/iESEI/cc3c4bc20c.jpg (http://puu.sh/iESEI/cc3c4bc20c.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Core :
- Item creation still working, even with DB2 and WoD modification :
http://puu.sh/ixeyS/472460fe7a.jpg (http://puu.sh/ixeyS/472460fe7a.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

But wait there's more !
No seriously, most of the content you can see was not made by me, my Team made it
The mount, the mapping and the dark night was made by Rifliz
The skin by my artistic team (DiantreDeGomez, Canibal, Kroketten)
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Milly on June 27, 2015, 09:46:48 pm
That's very impressive. But how..?
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Rangorn on June 27, 2015, 09:50:37 pm
Modding in Wod is pretty like Wotlk

Except you don't put your folder/file in MPQ, but in your WoW Root folder, like this :
(http://puu.sh/iETTF/735da2ae66.png)

You have to do some fix on your executable :

- Modding fix (Everyhing is here (http://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-bots-programs/501200-repost-sig-md5-protection-remover-2.html))
- Fix connexion to private server (TrinityCore's stuff)
-Fix version to 6.1 by changing CDNS and Versions in you executable in 010 Editor
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Helnesis on June 27, 2015, 09:54:24 pm
http://puu.sh/iETXY/7903f78c15.jpg (http://puu.sh/iETXY/7903f78c15.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Mapping in Azeroth with PHILIPTNG tools!

(downporter and 3,3,5 adt - 4,3,4 adt)

and noggit:

http://puu.sh/iEUe3/b933c47650.jpg (http://puu.sh/iEUe3/b933c47650.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 09:55:31 pm
Quote from: "bizzlesnaff"
Where is the difference ? Create something new in 335 or 4xx or 5xx and also 6xx..its the same..you try to create things that are absolut new. So why not choose the easy way (335)?
Because modding for newer versions, u do not only get the things u make, but u also get the content blizz have made for this expansion.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Rangorn on June 27, 2015, 09:55:53 pm
Yeah i forgot to mention Helnesis, he's the superadmin (i'm only the number 3 :( )

He's doing mapping, importing stuff (Tanaan jungle) and everything on the Core.

But we don't give a fuck about him right ? :D
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 09:57:57 pm
Quote from: "Skarn"
Actaully, the __main__ reason no one is doing mods for later expansion is the lack of tools. It is pain in the ass to get your models or zones upconverted to these versions without any bugs.
Well, then the question is "why doesnt anyone make tools for newer versions?"
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: axel0099 on June 27, 2015, 10:02:29 pm
I don't know if you actually "look" at the forum as you're pretending to do, but if you did you could see a whole project being dedicated towards getting mapping tools into 6.0.0 and beyond.

Quote "I've been on modcraft for approximately 8,5 months"
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Skarn on June 27, 2015, 10:06:00 pm
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
Quote from: "Skarn"
Actaully, the __main__ reason no one is doing mods for later expansion is the lack of tools. It is pain in the ass to get your models or zones upconverted to these versions without any bugs.
Well, then the question is "why doesnt anyone make tools for newer versions?"
Maybe because there is nobody who is willing to do it? Except for some guys like Cromon and Kaev who are working on WoD tools.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: schlumpf on June 27, 2015, 10:09:00 pm
Quote from: "Skarn"
Actaully, the __main__ reason no one is doing mods for later expansion is the lack of tools. It is pain in the ass to get your models or zones upconverted to these versions without any bugs.

This. Tools are required for properly modding. There are no proper tools. There are no people left for reverse engineering stuff required and those writing working tools.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 27, 2015, 10:28:30 pm
Quote from: "schlumpf"
Quote from: "Skarn"
There are no people left for reverse engineering stuff required and those writing working tools.
Where have they gone?
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Skarn on June 27, 2015, 10:28:57 pm
All the things happening in the thread now pretty much show what we lack here. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4206 (http://modcraft.io/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) If you know what I mean.  :arrow:
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: iindigo on June 28, 2015, 07:50:24 pm
I find the lack of newer versions a little frustrating too, simply because I feel that newer features like terrain phasing can be used in powerful ways that don't harm gameplay — ways that Blizzard will likely never even consider (one thing that comes to mind is using phasing to add seasonal variations to the entire game world).

Given the sheer scope of some of the projects I've seen here, what we really need more than anything is our own, open source, multi-platform, WoW-like game engine and a matching server core and editor suite. It sounds like a daunting task (and it is), but given the complexity of newer versions of WoW and the fact that we still haven't fully reverse engineered 3.3.5, I'm led to think that quality modding is equally daunting as a project.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: phantomx on June 28, 2015, 09:36:57 pm
This is just my point of view I don't mean to offend anyone this is just how I see things.

[media:3fuphh63]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2T0Xi9zFfY[/media:3fuphh63]
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: PhilipTNG on June 29, 2015, 12:26:20 am
Quote from: "phantomx"
This is just my point of view I don't mean to offend anyone this is just how I see things.

[media:y45eybwm]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2T0Xi9zFfY[/media:y45eybwm]
THIS!!

Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Because it's easier to complain about lack of tools and content than it is to make stuff which requires time, effort, determination, and more time to study and do R&D work. So naturally people take the easier route out and nothing gets done.

Like there is seriously no need for this thread. Unless you're trying to complain or just wade in the waters of time while you wait for someone to take the helm for you, so to speak. ... Just saying.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: iindigo on June 29, 2015, 12:44:33 am
Not that it makes any difference, but I'd be spending a lot of my spare time making user-friendly tools if I could find a clear path to follow with regards to learning how to parse and write binary files programmatically. I make a living doing software development in a C-like language, so it's not a problem of being unable to program. The only problem is lack of knowledge in one particular type of programming.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: PhilipTNG on June 29, 2015, 01:58:56 am
Quote from: "iindigo"
Not that it makes any difference, but I'd be spending a lot of my spare time making user-friendly tools if I could find a clear path to follow with regards to learning how to parse and write binary files programmatically. I make a living doing software development in a C-like language, so it's not a problem of being unable to program.
Who's that reply to? There's only been 2 posts since your last reply and none of them talk about that.

Quote from: "iindigo"
The only problem is lack of knowledge in one particular type of programming.
I wouldn't say that's the only problem in terms of regards to all the people interested in Modding Cataclysm, another is those that are actually interested in the topic either don't have the free time to spare spending time on the idea or ............

Those who won't make the effort to put in the time to making their dreams a reality, which usually follows with them complaining that others(such as yourself, sclumpf, mjollna, stoneharry, and all other legends) won't make better or newer tools.  Then they start to wine about how people that know how to do it won't make stuff, but that's not a logical argument at all since what benefit is it to them if they did do it anyway? If They(the smart people) have no interest in it then that's perfectly fine, leechers trying to make it a reason and to be negative about their standing on the topic doesn't help anyone.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: iindigo on June 29, 2015, 02:17:18 am
Quote from: "PhilipTNG"
Who's that reply to? There's only been 2 posts since your last reply and none of them talk about that.

It wasn't a response to anybody in particular, but to the general sentiment of there being no tools and nobody to work on the tools.

Quote from: "PhilipTNG"
Those who won't make the effort to put in the time to making their dreams a reality, which usually follows with them complaining that others(such as yourself, sclumpf, mjollna, stoneharry, and all other legends) won't make better or newer tools.  Then they start to wine about how people that know how to do it won't make stuff, but that's not a logical argument at all since what benefit is it to them if they did do it anyway? If They(the smart people) have no interest in it then that's perfectly fine, leechers trying to make it a reason and to be negative about their standing on the topic doesn't help anyone.

I see what you're saying and agree to some extent, but I still see lack of [quality] tools as a problem if only because those who are dedicated enough to mod without tools could do so much more with their time, energy, and creativity if they weren't bogged down by process, quirks, glitches, gotchas, etc. If making tools available lowers the barrier to entry, that's a side effect and won't make that much difference for those who lack the patience to learn. Modding will still take a lot of work, it'll just be less tedious.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Chase on June 29, 2015, 03:05:31 am
Roleplay Heaven welcomes MoP and WoD modders. Some people from modcraft are already on Roleplay Heaven, and we welcome the rest of you. We even have a 12mb WoD client that works with custom patches if anyone wants to convert and get started modding for WoD.

For me, I already made a custom skins patch, like Rangorns, and we have a custom object patch also.

Modcraft will have to realize eventually that the expansion they are modding on is 7 years old. I find it funny you guys are retro porting so much, why don't you just play the version those assets are on? Yes, its challenging, but that's the whole point in modding, feeling accomplished when you achieve what you believed was impossible.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 29, 2015, 03:19:05 am
Quote from: "Chase"
that's the whole point in modding, feeling accomplished when you achieve what you believed was impossible
Exactly
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: PhilipTNG on June 29, 2015, 03:40:17 am
Quote from: "Chase"
I find it funny you guys are retro porting so much, why don't you just play the version those assets are on?.
It really depends on the end user's reasons, if they are using LK because of the reasons listed above because they complain that there aren't any tools available to do what they want to do. then yeah that's pretty hilarious.

But if said end user is merely using it as a visual sandbox to view custom content and don't actually "play" anything, that statement is void of any reasoning on those individuals.  I know many that merely use LK or Cataclysm as a way to please their visual desires and are fine with that.

As for myself, I don't play anything anymore, I merely use the game, whether it'd be BC, LK, Cata, MoP, WoD, I just use them merely as a visual sandbox.

Quote from: "Chase"
but that's the whole point in modding, feeling accomplished when you achieve what you believed was impossible.
This is true, but the same goes for any expansion, some people still do things for LK/TBC/Vanilla simply because it's either things that weren't explored before in those expansions or simply things that others may have said it may not be feasibly possible to achieve.  And others, simply for self experimentation for R&D purposes.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Vlad on June 29, 2015, 09:49:50 am
While we're all sitting here, I'd like to complain about the lack of original ideas in the community.

Harry Potter in wow is not stupid. Please stop emulating wow, and make your own thing!
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 29, 2015, 12:09:25 pm
Imo wow should stay wow. But thats just imo.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: phantomx on June 29, 2015, 06:39:34 pm
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
Imo wow should stay wow. But thats just imo.

WoW can stay wow all we do is utilize the engine and turn it into something else because that is a big part of modding it's to make it your own experience.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: MR. Farrare on June 29, 2015, 06:42:02 pm
Quote from: "phantomx"
WoW can stay wow all we do is utilize the engine and turn it into something else because that is a big part of modding it's to make it your own experience.
like skyrim with all the mods is still skyrim  :)
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 29, 2015, 08:37:54 pm
I was talking more about lore in responce to "Harry Potter in wow"
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Vlad on June 30, 2015, 01:17:48 am
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
I was talking more about lore in responce to "Harry Potter in wow"

That was just something I heard at one point on this forum, and frankly, I don't think its too far fetched. Just the other month, a wow/starwars crossover was made, and I loved it. As Phantom said, WoW should just be an engine. Nothing too much more.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 30, 2015, 02:06:35 am
Quote from: "Vlad"
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
WoW should just be an engine. Nothing too much more.
Personally, Im playing wow and having my wow server because I love the wow universe and the lore. But thats just everyone's own opinion.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: phantomx on June 30, 2015, 02:30:02 am
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
Quote from: "Vlad"
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
WoW should just be an engine. Nothing too much more.
Personally, Im playing wow and having my wow server because I love the wow universe and the lore. But thats just everyone's own opinion.


What we mean is that we're just using wow's engine we're not using wow's lore or universe we may use some assets but we're not trying to make i.e. harry potter match the lore of wow it will just be harry potter's universe in the wow engine that's it.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on June 30, 2015, 10:20:17 pm
Yea, I get it. Just said I woulnt use wow engine for stuff unrelated to wow cause for me it feels like drinking tea using a wine glass. Although I agree Im being kinda stupid here : /
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: phantomx on July 01, 2015, 02:27:10 am
Quote from: "Смердокрыл"
Yea, I get it. Just said I woulnt use wow engine for stuff unrelated to wow cause for me it feels like drinking tea using a wine glass. Although I agree Im being kinda stupid here : /

I understand your point of view but we just don't see it that way.
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Смердокрыл on July 01, 2015, 02:59:59 am
Its everyone's personal view of the game so lets agree to disagree)
Title: Re: Why so little content for >4.x.x?
Post by: Kaev on July 01, 2015, 07:50:41 am
Quote from: "Chase"
Modcraft will have to realize eventually that the expansion they are modding on is 7 years old. I find it funny you guys are retro porting so much, why don't you just play the version those assets are on?
Way more people would actually do that, but there is no public server software on this version which is as bugless as the 3.3.5 core. It is 7 years old, but that also means 7 years of development on this core. And this 7 year old core is based on an even older core, which leads to even more years of development.
That's why i stay on 3.3.5.