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[RELEASE] "Better" Procedural Water 3.3.5a

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iindigo:

--- Quote from: "Steff" ---The problems of the community is not the software.
I realy have problems with the people.
Promisses over and over but noone finish hiw work.
--- End quote ---
I think it has everything to do with tools. What I've seen is:

Project is started with enthusiasm —> work begins, some progress is made —> difficulty and frustrations of using tools compounds with already labor intensive creation process, slowing it to a crawl —> team members become demoralized and the project falls apart.

In other words, because the tools are difficult and frustrating, the results don't even come close to matching the effort invested and people lose hope. The only way serious mod projects can get anywhere is if the team is large, extremely dedicated, and has implemented workarounds for the hundreds of quirks and bugs present in the tools. No small, casually-run project has as much as a chance at seeing the light of day.

Contrast this to, say, the WCIII or SCII custom game scene where the tools are very solid. There, a single person can feasibly create a monstrous map with piles of custom scripting, custom map work, and custom art assets within a reasonable amount of time. Naturally a dedicated team can then do some very impressive work. Admittedly, the complexity of a RTS map is reduced compared to MMO development, but the point still stands.

And that's not even getting into the barrier to entry issue. WoW modding is a pain in the ass to get into which ends up scaring away lots of people who could've been prolific modders. You can't expect the scene to prosper when you spend more time trying to coerce crappy tools into working than you do actually creating something.

Amaroth:

--- Quote from: "iindigo" ---And that's not even getting into the barrier to entry issue. WoW modding is a pain in the ass to get into which ends up scaring away lots of people who could've been prolific modders. You can't expect the scene to prosper when you spend more time trying to coerce crappy tools into working than you do actually creating something.
--- End quote ---
I will sign under this, trying to make something work and than realizing that its f****g buggy/difficult made me a lot of times really demoralized. I never stopped though, but I am not common "material", I always in the end return and work again. A lot of people I know don't.

Milly:
All three of you bring up good points. The tools for the most part are what made me give up on a lot of the things I've had planned. Many things just started bugging out and a fix wasn't worth my time. And as iindigo said WoW modding is about tons of work with very little, incremental results. It is so demoralizing. The fact that Maruum still stands is a miracle in and of itself. I've probably cycled through 20 different projects since I joined the scene but that's probably mostly my own inability to finish anything I start.

phantomx:
I feel the same way I tend to work on a lot of different things at once so I don't really focus on one thing at a time  :cry:  but I do finish what I start never the less because no matter how taxing it is it's what I enjoy doing I only do what I do because it's my hobby.

Skarn:
Guys, the problem is actually really simple. It is not caused by lazy people. No one really finish anything because our tools are bugged as crap. I don't blame anyone in that, all the developers has done a great work but it is still not enough. Noggit is full of duplication, terraforming and even texturing bugs and that is a real reason almost nobody finishes the job. You just start doing smth, face some difficulties which are hard or even impossible to fix and you just give it up.
 The software should be improved otherwise the community is going to die. Moreover, we got some guys here who have some skills in programming as far as I know. It would be much more productive if they came together on the development.

Sorry for my english, I am on tablet.

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