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Amaroth:
[paragraph:1ko44p3g]"Btw, you don't have to choose between the 2 forums, it's not Fallout New vegas."

No, we didn't have, until now. Now we have to. You see, MC-Net offers for me much better tools for formating text, it also shows when tutorial was updated and also has great features for galleries. Its far, far more simple for me to post my projects and tutorials there, while posting them here is huge pain, because I need to upload all my screenshots to external media pages (which tend to not function properly or delete screenshots after some period of time) and place just links to them here. I also like that I can write a comment about every screenshot in MC-Net gallery - its just perfect for presenting projects. And presented projects can both inspire and encourage others to do something similiar or even better. I don't want to write and post all my stuff to both sites, because copy-pasting and remaking formating is just a huge pain and work I don't want to do. And, once again, I hate Modcraft's formating, writing [ ] everywhere (or suffering clicking and being sent to top of page and text all the time) - I just want classic forum text editor which fucking WORKS.

I can post all my stuff on MC-Net and place also links to it here, with some commentary and discussion related to that. Or I can just post it all just on MC-Net, because Steff apparently wants to prevent me from linking to MC-Net pages. Its utterly pointless Steff, have you lost your mind? This is your part of responsibility for splitting 2 pages - that you actually make people to decide where they want to be and where they want to post their stuff, and in your arrogance expect that Modcraft will be chosen. It won't, not by everyone. And it doesn't help anyone, because people, who visit only Modcraft can't acces things posted on MC-Net, not from here, thanks to your decision. It. Makes. Things. Worse. And. Harder. Nothing more, and nothing less.

"Maybe it would have been better to publish all the suggestions that eventually lead to creating MC.Net on the forum. I may be completely wrong, but the only public debate I have seen about Modcraft evolution was about ranks."

I believe that all if not most of things were said already, in a few topics, sometimes as an OT. And if not, they really were said and even repeated a few times after MC-Net appeared. The problem is that Steff apparently ignores quite damn a lot of suggestions. Or doesn't want to make those things. I don't care if its arrogance again, or just laziness. It definitely is something what justifies fact that someone has started a new site to make things he wanted real, because Steff wasn't able to - apparently for 3, 3 fucking years.


While I love everything what could exist only thanks to Modcraft, I can't, and ever won't blame Skarn or Milly for what they have done. They wanted ranks, shoutbox, galleries (and very good galleries indeed), reputation, modern theme, better and international domain, release section for tools, tutorial section for tutorials, and when I say sections, I really mean SECTIONS and post types, not what is here. They wanted to have site which functions and is developing itself as users need and expect it of it. And you know what? They made such site, unlike Steff, who is just ignoring suggestions, replying to messages after even a few days (if he ever replies), who does nearly nothing and still expects results for that nothing (nothing about Modcraft rustyness, your work on Neo surely is very welcomed and appreaciated), just because of his history. Your history might be great Steff, but it won't save this site as its getting more and more outdated and as it is so confusing and more importantly - so hard and pain to use, because of reasons I have highlighted in this post. Because history is for archives and for being forgiven by most. Present acts are what really matter.[/paragraph:1ko44p3g]

Смердокрыл:
Hey!
 I saw this giant battlefield and decided to write something, because I love giving my opinion when it's not needed.


 Firstly I wanna talk about the design of both websites. It's something not many people notice as an important thing, but trust me it is.
 I believe all websites can be divided into a number of types. For example, there are those programming websites which you stumble upon, looking to fix something on your computer, and can't understand a fucking word there. Also, there are those isolated forgotten websites of really old games or forum rp, where the last post was made in, like, 2012.
 Due to it's "forum-only" pragmatic design and gloomy colours, Modcraft looks like a mix of these two. Yes, it provides a more professional atmosphere, but only for the experienced modders. The newcomers are just scared away.

 Another thing is that the absence of a shoutbox and the complicated-looking private messaging and comment posting all create a feel of tedious waiting every time you ask a question here. That is also bad for beginner modders, because when you just start, you are like a small kid: you have a fucking tonn of new stupid questions every hour and you desperately want them answered.

 From all I described above, it just looks like modcraft is the strictly professional website for masters of the dark arts, while mc.net is a modding community for everyone.


 Secondly, but much more important is that, looking at your argument, I have to agree this is a dick fight between the leaders. Some people (on both sides, I have to remark) imagine the whole thing as a certain project they organise, and forget that it's not about solving social problems but about modding a game!
 Do you know why I made that "Do stuff" picture? Because I had to bump a topic at least two fucking times to get some kind of a  reply! And surprisingly enough, there still is a giant fucking pile of unanswered questions which no-one bothers to look at! Maybe you could go help those people instead of exercising public speeches here? And I'm addressing all speakers, because the goall isn't for someone to have a  better website, but for all of us to have a better modding, and if you truly want to help the community evolve, then actually "Do stuff" instead of posing as a modding Messiah or a keeper of traditions.


Thanks for attention.

Amaroth:
I am trying to not answer questions when I am not really sure about correct answer Смердокрыл, or when I know there are much more knowledgable people than me for that topic. And I doubt there are many people who do opposite. I think most of questions which aren't answered in more than few days or weeks aren't answered just because noone really is sure what correct answer is. Ofc, some topics are simply missed and need to be bumped. And I definitely agree that shoutbox is great feature for solving such problems, and thats something even I underestimated because when I came to Modcraft I wasn't beginner at all, I was taught from the very beginning to be very self-relying in modding - and I still am. And I suppose people like schlumpf or Steff are the same. We had to figure out a lot of things on our own and we just keep doing so often.

Well, shoutbox being probably underestimated by experienced devs is the first reason why I post here again, the second reason is that I probably owe at least some apologies to Steff after discussion we had on Skype, I may understand reasons for his behavior towards MC-Net (well, still I don't know how true they really are, but I don't really care to be objective here).


Why I don't really care? Because still nothing changes about fact that Modcraft is in current state very bad site for presenting projects, posting tutorials, releases or teaching new and still too confused devs. Thats why I will post my stuff on MC-Net from now. I can at least give you folks here links to it, so we can share content between sites. Or I can't, and Modcraft's content will be again a little smaller. Thats up to Steff.

Skarn:
Смердокрыл, there is so much more about modding than just doing it. The modding is stuck now and is slowly getting better. We need more attention to the scene, more activity and interested programmers who want to develop tools. There is almost no interested programmers here. Maybe a 2-3 guys. We need to catch up with recent expansions and whatnot. All of that requires sharing ideas, discussions, community work, show-offs, videos and whatnot. The community needs to be _living_ and evolving in order to attract new people or motivate the existing one. Modcraft has almost turned into a help board. I don't see much posts when people post their work and discuss the ways to make it better. There is no creative process happening here, only using what we have had for ages with some rare exceptions when a new tool or a new tutorial appears.

I don't see all that on MC-Net. People post their work, they discuss it. Help questions are also there but they do not make a 80-90% of the website content. As a result, we got people motivated to share their scripts for WoD modding and other things. Ask yourself a question why were not they doing it here?

I used to like Modcraft long ago,  I learned many many things here and from local people in private talks. But it came to a dead end in the end of 2012. Nothing major happened ever since. That's why we do it and I can proudly say that we are doing it pretty well because I receive tons of positive feedback from people.

And here, my friends, comes the most amazing part of my post. You know what I really hate in this world? Double standarts. As we all know, thanks to Amaroth, that we are not allowed to link MC-Net on the board. But I found this:

[attachment=0:3b0qruzf]d463b-clip-33kb.png[/attachment:3b0qruzf]

This is a post made on AC-Web by Steff. He got his link to Modcraft removed from somewhere and he wrote that. Do you believe that this guy keeps his word? I think the obvious answer is "No.". I don't want any war or flame, I am just really amazed how people easily throw away what they said when there is nothing else left to do. And this is not even the first encounter of the same behaviour.
Take care of yourself, guys.

Steff:
It is funny what strange assessment about this site are out there...

Modcraft is a community. Help is offerd by members. So if you dont get an answer it is the fault of the people running Modcraft?

For me it is not d. fight.

I NEVER got an offer that some one wants to help making the site better. BTW Modcraft is not "old"
We are running an up to date PHPBB board. Only the fact nothing has changed obviously dont mean that we dont work hard for this board. I think alone Schlumpf had houres of fun making the board save agains china spammers.

The bad fact is. I have no time to do tech changes. And yes personal I dont need them. That dont mean that I am not open for ideas and help.

There where also many people offering help in the past. They start and never finished anything.
So my trust and enthusiasm is not the best if people come with big plans instead of just try to make it better step by step.

In the moment Magnus offerd help and work on moving the site to his already existing root server. We also have some time several top level domains to get away from the superparanoid thing.Then we can also activate again the shoutbox. It is not gone becaus we dont wnted it. The hoster just turned it off becaus it created to much traffic .....

[paragraph:1nm2gggw]The newcomers are just scared away.[/paragraph:1nm2gggw]

explanation please. I help everyone I can to get started. Thats why I did the tutorial to get people fast up and running and protect them to avoid the common problems you can run into. I even do often temaviewer session to setup environment for beginners.

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