[QUESTION] Parse Noggit worlds to Wow

[Keta]

Hey everyone.

Now, this might mainly be a question to all C++ devs, but anyone in general are welcome to try and make this. Now my question is, would it be possible for someone to make a program (maybe a small batchfile) that can load the world you are making in Noggit, and parse the entire thing into Wow, while running? So Wow will instead of loading the map from the MPQs, it would load the maps from the RAMs. The maps that you're building in Noggit.
Which (if I'm correct? Dunno, never really done any C++ developing) would make it possible to instantly view your builds IN WOW, as from a players perspective, while you're building in Noggit.
Sorta like this: (at 1:14)
[youtube:3suey4mm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqc9EP7_56s[/youtube:3suey4mm]
Hopefully you'll get what I mean.
Now I don't expect it to look ANYWHERE near as fancy as that But I mean, if we know Wow reads ADTs, it shouldn't be so hard to make a Wow that can load from ADTs in the rams, instead of from the MPQs? x)
Just an idea Hopefully you'll consider it



Thanks
Keta

[schlumpf]

Actually, people even had that idea before it made it into Wowedit. The problem is: As everything we do is only based on reverse engineering, its a major pain in the ass, doing stuff like this.

Of course, its possible from the technical perspective. It would just be way too much work to do.

Also, sadly, live edit streaming code is not available in Cataclysm release builds.

This would force us to first reverse engineer everything related to rendering, loading and managing files. Then write some magic thing that does synchronization between noggit and wow. As the structures used in the engine actually differ from the ones in the files, this would also need conversion from the noggit structures to files to engine structures.

All of that without being able to modify a single line of Wow without having pain.

Its too much pain from my perspective. I tried around with it a bit and did not feel like its worth investigating more.

[TheBuG]

Actually, people even had that idea before it made it into Wowedit. The problem is: As everything we do is only based on reverse engineering, its a major pain in the ass, doing stuff like this.

Of course, its possible from the technical perspective. It would just be way too much work to do.

Also, sadly, live edit streaming code is not available in Cataclysm release builds.

This would force us to first reverse engineer everything related to rendering, loading and managing files. Then write some magic thing that does synchronization between noggit and wow. As the structures used in the engine actually differ from the ones in the files, this would also need conversion from the noggit structures to files to engine structures.

All of that without being able to modify a single line of Wow without having pain.

Its too much pain from my perspective. I tried around with it a bit and did not feel like its worth investigating more.

Have to ask, wouldn't it be possible to load NoggIt into WoW, rather than next to it and having the updates show live?

Kind of like how Taliis did it ? Though terrain editing might be a bit more complicated than the object movement.

Saving and loading might give some issues (from a rather stupid point of view, but I know shit about wow's engine structures).

[schlumpf]

Have to ask, wouldn't it be possible to load NoggIt into WoW, rather than next to it and having the updates show live?

Kind of like how Taliis did it ? Though terrain editing might be a bit more complicated than the object movement.

Saving and loading might give some issues (from a rather stupid point of view, but I know shit about wow's engine structures).

This video is actually mine, if you had a look at the username on youtube.

Doing this was a major pain in the ass, as explained above.

There are some other people -- I think Jadd did something as well -- who investigated on this. Yes, it _is_ possible. But it's hardly easier. When doing the two-application-approach, you can just use your own structures and do thing completely yourself. When going in-wow-process, you need to use the given rendering stuff, which you would have to reverse engineer just as if you'd only stream it. Also, you'd have to reverse engineer the other stuff named.

In the end, there isn't really much difference, except in-process, you have to stick to the given rules and out of process you just have to write data.

Saving and loading is the smallest problem. WoW can even write into MPQs, just as Noggit can.

[TheBuG]

Have to ask, wouldn't it be possible to load NoggIt into WoW, rather than next to it and having the updates show live?

Kind of like how Taliis did it ? Though terrain editing might be a bit more complicated than the object movement.

Saving and loading might give some issues (from a rather stupid point of view, but I know shit about wow's engine structures).

This video is actually mine, if you had a look at the username on youtube.

Should've known   .

Doing this was a major pain in the ass, as explained above.

There are some other people -- I think Jadd did something as well -- who investigated on this. Yes, it _is_ possible. But it's hardly easier. When doing the two-application-approach, you can just use your own structures and do thing completely yourself. When going in-wow-process, you need to use the given rendering stuff, which you would have to reverse engineer just as if you'd only stream it. Also, you'd have to reverse engineer the other stuff named.

In the end, there isn't really much difference, except in-process, you have to stick to the given rules and out of process you just have to write data.

Saving and loading is the smallest problem. WoW can even write into MPQs, just as Noggit can.

Fair enough, not unhappy with how things are at the moment, it would probably not have a huge impact on the quality of worldbuilds, just on the speed they're done. Then again, might make builders lazy (for as far as we aren't yet).

[Keta]

Hm, sad to hear this isn't as easy as I imagined it but... Oh well Would it atleast be possible to modify Wow so it could load ADTs from outside the MPQs? And so you could simply do a /reload to update to the new world. That way you would simply have to save in Noggit, when you wanted to see it ingame. Ofc, it would require 2 Wow's, but fuck dat

Thanks
Keta

[Keta]

So... Any of you C++ peps could fix this up? :S

Thanks
Keta

[schlumpf]

Well, that might be possible as well, but not really that easy. I don't know exactly how much you had to change for that, but I guess its not that little.

Reverse engineering isn't that easy. Try it yourself. You don't need a to know anything about C++ for that.

[Eluo]

Weren't until 1.12 the files loadable from outside just like Keta described it?
It could be possible as far as i know blizzard, to be still in the client bust just deactivated.
What do you think?

[schlumpf]

To actually say something, I'd have to look into the binary. Without, I can only do speculation.

There even is code to ignore SVN data in the binary, so it might be possible, yes.

[Keta]

Cool So... Will you be trying to do this whenever you find some freetime?

Thanks
Keta

[schlumpf]

Well, I most likely wont, as there is no use for me and I therefore don't care about it.

[Steff]

The question is. Do you want this or more work be done on noggit direct?

For me testing takes less the one minute. Start script to pack MPWs and this direct close all wow tools and run up wow.exe.

[TheBuG]

The question is. Do you want this or more work be done on noggit direct?

For me testing takes less the one minute. Start script to pack MPWs and this direct close all wow tools and run up wow.exe.

I think most people would prefer some new features in Noggit rather than this. Why? Because it only saves time, but it doesn't really add a lot of extra value to worldbuilding (in my opinion).

[Keta]

Okay, I get your points :p
But Steff, could you maybe release the script you're using? Even tho its probably just a batch file but... x)

Thanks
Keta