Noggit 3 [r104] Custom continent crash [WoW 3.3.5a]

[MidnightWolf]

Hello!

I've read a bunch of topics about custom continent errors but I couldn't find a solution for my problem. If it is already explained somewhere and I didn't notice it then I apologize. So I used Cromon's Continent Creator to make my own continent and put the files to their appropriate folders (map.dbc to %root%/DBFilesClient/ and *.adt and .wdt file(s) to %root%/World/Maps/MyMap/. It shows up in Noggit all nice and cool until I click on it which makes Noggit crash. I tried to do it also by hand (avoiding the continent creator program) using the map.dbc extracted from patch-enGB-3.MPQ (should be the most recent version of the .dbc) and edited it with Taliis but it didn't show up in noggit then. Help would be greatly appreciated.

Anyway I am not trying to rush things but how about releasing a new version of the program? I read that there are critical bugs fixed already which would come really handy. A note to consider: frequent releases -> more users = more testers -> faster/more bug reporting -> faster development (less time spent on tracking down bugs) -> greater help than closed beta with a couple of people

[schlumpf]

It shows up in Noggit all nice and cool until I click on it which makes Noggit crash.

Have you looked in the log file after it crashing? Is there anything in it?
Also, try doing everything like this and then replace the created ADTs with some from another continent.

I tried to do it also by hand (avoiding the continent creator program) using the map.dbc extracted from patch-enGB-3.MPQ (should be the most recent version of the .dbc) and edited it with Taliis but it didn't show up in noggit then.

Try a different editor, Taliis might be not that good from time to time. Also, compare the automatically created one with the one you did.

Anyway I am not trying to rush things but how about releasing a new version of the program? I read that there are critical bugs fixed already which would come really handy. A note to consider: frequent releases -> more users = more testers -> faster/more bug reporting -> faster development (less time spent on tracking down bugs) -> greater help than closed beta with a couple of people

I'm also not that happy about the closed beta, but meeh. Just apply for that group, as far as I know Stephan lets everyone in. Its not really closed. The group just gets cleaned from time to time to remove people never saying anything.

[MidnightWolf]

The log file tells only that the program has opened my custom .wdt file and then the log ends. Nothing useful in it. I tried to use adt from other continent but it does not work. The difference between manually created map.dbc and generated map.dbc is that the generated fills out a lot of extra coloumns with the continents/instances' string IDs whereas the manuallly created has 0s written in there. AFAIK this shouldn't cause error, nor influence how the file works (However to safely state that I'd need to know what all those coloumns are for exactly).

It would be good to know how to create a continent which does not crash the editor (and the game). Following the existing tutorials does not seem to work. On the top of that I do not have another options to try world building besides noggit, because YiasEdit DX comes with an awkward launcher which tries to download the actual program and...fails.

Yea I know that anyone can apply for the test group but a known fact is that people are lazy in general which means even the smallest step required to get stuff discourages them from doing so. What I am saying there is that if the betas would be really public accessible(and not "semi-public" like now) then more people could volunteerly help to catch bugs.

[MidnightWolf]

[Double post]

So far this topic proved to be the most useful: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=323

From this I learnt that ContinentCreator makes corrupted wdt files... And also that Noggit doesn't read .wdt from raw folders so the wdt has to be in an mpq patch otherwise the new continent won't show up in the editor... I tried to make the stuff all over again and removed all other custom patches I had in my wow data folder but Noggit is still crashing, however with a different log file ending which just tells "Loading world Southlands". Is there actually a way to make this work in r104?

I gonna bitch a little more   another strong point for releasing a new version is to avoid hundreds of topics like these continent error ones.

[schlumpf]

Yea I know that anyone can apply for the test group but a known fact is that people are lazy in general which means even the smallest step required to get stuff discourages them from doing so. What I am saying there is that if the betas would be really public accessible(and not "semi-public" like now) then more people could volunteerly help to catch bugs.

I gonna bitch a little more   another strong point for releasing a new version is to avoid hundreds of topics like these continent error ones.

Most people don't even try helping to find bugs, so that would hardly be a reason for me, to do things public. With semi-public, people sometimes at least try to help to stay in there, being able to get new versions.
If people are discouraged from clicking twice, I can't help them and mostly don't care.

This error is not related to Noggit, as you stated yourself, that the issue is the bad WDT. Therefore, why should we bother creating a new version?

Also: All files should be read from the disk, no matter if ADT, WDT, BLP or XML. There should be no difference codewise.

[MidnightWolf]

Well, if the approved tutorial is not working it IS related somehow to noggit. If there wouldn't be any error, we'd drown in custom user made maps already but that seems not to be the case. A fresh tutorial is required or a proper explanation why this is not working properly, even when it is done by hand.

I disagree with you on the user's part. I don't think the wow modders are made up of people who don't care about the editing programs they use. First off it is everyone's(developer+user) interest to have a bugfree program to use therefore reporting encountered bugs is not a favor to do, as long as there is a clear method doing it (I'd prefer a forum section where bugs can be posted as topics as opposed to the current bugtracker method [too "developerish"] ). I don't see a reason why would a user leave an annoying bug unreported when he bumps into it each time he uses the program. Even though I think modding wow requires a lot of understanding (thus expert people), there will be always newbies or people who simply don't understand things easily. To that end there should be a built in help menu or something, and a link pointing to this forum (even I had hard times finding this board) so people can get help easier and/or report bugs.
What discourages people here is the pressure to report bugs. In a working community this shouldn't be needed as per the reasons explained above.

[schlumpf]

Well, if the approved tutorial is not working it IS related somehow to noggit. If there wouldn't be any error, we'd drown in custom user made maps already but that seems not to be the case. A fresh tutorial is required or a proper explanation why this is not working properly, even when it is done by hand.

How is the tutorial connected to Noggit? If Cromon's tool creates corrupted files, that's not an issue with Noggit. On why it won't work for you: I don't know. And I can't test. How should I test without data to test with? A public new version of Noggit won't fix that as well.

I disagree with you on the user's part. I don't think the wow modders are made up of people who don't care about the editing programs they use. First off it is everyone's(developer+user) interest to have a bugfree program to use therefore reporting encountered bugs is not a favor to do, as long as there is a clear method doing it (I'd prefer a forum section where bugs can be posted as topics as opposed to the current bugtracker method [too "developerish"] ). I don't see a reason why would a user leave an annoying bug unreported when he bumps into it each time he uses the program. Even though I think modding wow requires a lot of understanding (thus expert people), there will be always newbies or people who simply don't understand things easily. To that end there should be a built in help menu or something, and a link pointing to this forum (even I had hard times finding this board) so people can get help easier and/or report bugs.
What discourages people here is the pressure to report bugs. In a working community this shouldn't be needed as per the reasons explained above.

In the whole time, I worked on Noggit, people never cared but mostly just complained. There are people flaming developers for the bugs and that the software is useless and shit. There are people claiming that the whole reverse engineering work is bullshit and useless. Does that motivate developers? I guess not. Sure, its in the interest of both, to have bug free software (well, more the interest of the users).
You can always report bugs by mail (schlumpf__@hotmail.de), bugtracker (^) and whatever you like. Just claiming "it does not work" without any data to use for the developer won't help though.
People don't report errors because they prefer to cry about it, flame or just dismiss work.
This general flaming attitude encountered in this community of wow modding (as mostly seen on mmowned) is a reason why developers prefer to have things semi-private to be able to control stuff a bit. There is no pressure, but the versions published in that private section are beta versions and beta versions are intended to be tested. If you claim to test stuff and never do, that doesn't help anyone.

Well, I don't really care. Thing is: people flame, developers get demotivated, applications keep being shitty, people flame more.

[Steff]

fact is that people are lazy in general which means even the smallest step required to get stuff discourages them from doing so

Then fuck up such people. We spend TIME in developing so I think it not to much for others to spend time helping. If not they can go away and do something else with free time. And if a user have not enough motivation to register on a bugtraker he is not realy helpfull with beta testing. Testing meens not using the tool but realy test new functions and other stuff we write in the beta board. And we have around 10 people doing this realy good in the moment. And i want to say a big thanks to them now!

Also: All files should be read from the disk, no matter if ADT, WDT, BLP or XML. There should be no difference codewise

104 had the bug. it read WDT only from a patch file. I Fixed this.

is everyone's(developer+user) interest to have a bugfree program

And thats why I have closed developing to a group that will help finding the bugs and release it if they are gone and the normal users can use it (and i think we are near to this point). I hade enough of flaming and stupid posts that noggit is shit and dont work, without any helping information why and what did not work. And the clue was that in 60% the errors had nothing to do with noggit. I just made a new continent last week with eluos tutorial. And it works fine for me.

Excuse the hard words. Its normaly not my way but it also gets me on my nervs now, and I want to point this out. And by the way there are many oterh things you can help. Writing tutorials, help writing the noggit manual, be active here on the baord. All this will give me more free time to do more development.

[MidnightWolf]

Well then if Eluo's tutorial works for you in r104 then I must be doing something wrong. I've attached my files.

[Edit] Might be a good idea to write out which version(s) of the program(s) were used for making the tutorial [/Edit]

Anyway I totally understand your point, no one likes when people flame their work. All I can say to that however is:

Then fuck up such people.

There are always idiots/trolls and clowns who act like that but that shouldn't give a reason to stop development or close public access. Ban them if you feel like it.

Testing is done by using the tool actually; which can be done by anyone who uses the program (I can be considered a tester too when I use r104 to build stuff). That way you might have 100 very good people who test, not only 10. Again, this needs full public access to betas so people don't think noggit is dead or things like that. Remember, all they see is a year and a half old release.

Yeah, people sometimes mix things up. WoW modding is a bit complicated though, there are many realtions and overlaps between things (only people with a lot of experience and knowledge can oversee all of that), and that can explain why most of the reports tends to be false. There is no need to jump on these poor guys however.

All in all, the developers decide what to do. Community members can only make suggestions like I do.

[Zim4ik]

Try to remake your *.wdt file of location.