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A realistic after-Warcraft III server

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sshroud:
Commendable effort, but please, practice brevity. This is ridiculously stiff and verbose and it reads like a legal statement from  a lawyer.

The sentiment is nice, might be an interesting idea too, but you need to reduce the scope and write this in a more readable format.

Amaroth:
I also thought this guy should be a novelist :D

Martinus:

--- Quote from: "sshroud" ---Commdendable effort...
--- End quote ---

I wish you a good day, sshroud!

If you are initially relating to the concept, then I understand your position as a recognition of a hardly realisable idea. And indeed I have meant, as this topis is in such a stage, to be official as now I am making mainly public declarations. Nevertheless, I am always serious in my doings.

In these days, I am working on the "step by step" part of the project, as also spik96 in his kind contribution has suggested. I wish to post a thread in the recruitment section of the forums to see the potential of possible interest to work on the project. I intend to describe there an extent of expected work in greater detail, so each interesant can adequately consider his or her participation.

As you have also noted, as well as Amaroth before, I have decided to reduce the concept on the so-called 2. Model of the World, as it was described in my previous messages. For now, this concept incorporates the following general changes in the World of Warcraft:

a) There will not be any new World created, but only the existing one will be transformed to better corespond Warcraft III and its preceding games.
b) Non-playable characters should undergo change, as some may require relocation, replacement, removal or change in countenance or behavior.
c) Quests will possibly require the same modification.
d) Concerning the skill, spell and talent systems, these, if proved to be extensively demanding on modification, can functionally and systematically remain in the same condition, with only "stats" changed to accomodate the new creature strength system.
e) Creature (all playable and non-playable entities) should be modified to change effectiveness in combat (Ogres should always be strong as an Ogre, no matter where they appear [existing Duskwood Ogres or Badlands Ogres will be relativelly equal in combat {an Ogre with a club will deal more damage than an Ogre fighting with bare hands}]). Therefore, a particularly fearsome creature (dragon, Ancient, even an Ogre), should always be a feared one. This should also be a more realistic and experiencing criterion for Players to consider while encountering any creature in the world, creating a real-world respect for each kind of creature.
f) Together with the thirst, hunger (actually, eating and drinking might not cancel the hunger and thirst respectivelly, but merely regenerate Energy and therefore overlap the hunger or thirst effect) and burden (the more items is character carring [metal armor will be heavier than cloth or leather, but much more protective], the more his speed will be slowed down) system, I wish to also increase fall damage.
g) Weapons should deal damage adequate to their nature and use (a sword should always be more effective in inflicting damage than a dagger, if compared in the same kind of use [in original game, a sword of lower lever is less effective than a generic, non-special dagger of higher lever]).

I thank you for your review, sshroud, and appreciate any critique which might prove helpful. You are more than welcome for any kind of further contribution you see fit.


--- Quote from: "Amaroth" ---I also thought this guy should be a novelist
--- End quote ---

I recieve it as a compliment, dear Amaroth! I am also hoping that you are doing well in these days.

sshroud:
Well, what can I say, it's hard not to be a fan of this when you're being so kind.  :)  I think many of us share some fondness for the "old world" in the Warcraft universe. You've put some interesting ideas on the table and I think it would be intriguing to see them implemented.

Generally speaking, I think the challenge with the proposed systems will be in design and not technical. I'm skeptical of the hunger system, from a gameplay perspective I think it's a nuisance distracting you from getting to your business, especially in a goal-oriented game like WoW. I can see it from a realism perspective, but I think that type of realism is something WoW inherently can't provide,  instead it would probably be better to distill the features into what is considered essentially for the experience you wish to offer people.

I'm curious what your vision is from a macro perspective, will this be a singleplayer experience? If not, do you wish to emphasize any MMORPG elements? What do you have in mind for endgame?

Personally, I think it's a cool project to pursue, even for the sentiment alone. I've been doing quite some extensive modding myself, such as creating dungeon environments, only as personal project for myself though, but I'd be happy to share my thoughts and experiences, if you won't mind.

For example, if you'd ever want to spice things up a bit I've got an idea for you; differentiate the world during night and day, if you've ever played a game like the Ocarina of Time then think of how Hyrule changes during night, with skeletons rising from the ground and roaming around from dusk till dawn. This way you could make day and night feel very different, you could even take it as far as making some places only available during certain times of day (e.g. the doors covering the Quillboar burial grounds, Razorfen Downs, only opening at midnight and closing at sunrise). To pull it off it could help to make days shorter, like 8-10 hours day/night cycles instead of 24. Else some players would never get to experience certain times of the day.

Martinus:

--- Quote from: "sshroud" ---Well, what can I say...
--- End quote ---

     Regarding the hunger and thirst system: the main reasons (which I believe correlate with each other) why I would like to implement this system, are following:
     a) Actual experience and association: Making eating and drinking working on more realistic basis enables game to induce an actual experience, through which a Player can trully associate such action with the nature of consumption - an action performed few times a day to keep us fit and ensure regeneration for certain (longer than 20 seconds) time.
     b) In-game role: As being an unique activity with a more extensive content (as it can be situated in different contexts: searching for food, hunting for food, trading food, buying food, begging for food or going to eat and drink together with companions), eating and drinking creates a new and profound possibilies for players to experience in game. In relation to the eating process, a state of being fed can be stacking, with a less saturating food  providing a beneficial effect for shorter duration (example: eating a mouse and eating a boar's leg). Also the time required to consume a bigger food might actually be longer (consumed by stacks [in parts {a mouse can be eaten at once, while boar's leg might require a repeated action}]), therefore providing a space for social events during such a procedure (sitting at campfire or in a tavern), creating an another possibilities for encounters, even a hostile in nature.
     c) Enhancement of gaming experience from combat: By not being able to recieve an immediate regeneration benefits from feeding and drinking as in original World of Warcraft, the frequency of players' engagement in combat might be reduced, thus not making combat a routine. This should increase an actual gaming experience from combat by making it more unique, valuable and respected - as an aspect of game-life which will be regarded, between players, as a true challenge, and does not require players to reduce this experience on raids or arenas to reach that level of experience. This is something, I believe, what actually players seek - going to raids and other locations (searching for situations) which are more demanding, risking and challenging in general. This new concept can be understood as an actual harassment and obstacle in the sense that it might limit players from combat, but it is percieved so only because the element of combat currently lacks significance and therefore requirements and expectations on it are low - as it has become a rutine, and not a serious aspect of a game. I believe this is the one of the lacking or under-estimated elements that might bring some of those desired end-game or other challenging situations to the every-day of gaming life. But it will not end there, as it will actually make the whole World more challenging and difficult to fight through. I do not believe that Player should kill 50 boars, 10 dragons, a whole cave of Ogres and in sum does so on two continents in one day in order to be satisfied. I believe that it is not a number but a quality of combat-related situations which make it interesting.

     In addition to the concept of eating and drinking: If the effect of eating and drinking lasts for 6 hours, the possible time- and resource-consuming requirements are low, for to find a water source or catch a snake or kill a boar in the hills might not be difficult. The effect of eating and drinking should be active (running out) even while being logged-out, while the Hunger and Thirst should be effective only while being logged-in.
     If being effective at the same time (the Character is both hungry and thirsty), it might require 24 hours for Hunger and Thirst to drain all of the Character's Energy, while eating and drinking can, if effective concurrently, regenerate Energy from zero-point to full in 10 minutes.
     Additionally, concerning the water sources, I would wish that all freshwater sources be a locations where a Character can use a drinking ability. And if Player would have a proper container, he can use it in such a locations to fill it with the water for storage.

     Concerning this important "macro perspective" of singleplayer and multiplayer aspects of the game, the World will be challenging and therefore commonly require a joint action. But this new game system is meant to be constructed (with the integration of different gaming mechanics [difficulty to learn a powerful spell incribed only on a stone tablet somewhere in distant land or teachable only after longer study]) to actually allow players to become unique and extremely potent. A sorcerer can become such powerful to destroy a dragon or group of Ogres alone, or overpower other sorcerers. So singleplayer experience is indeed present, but both it and the multiplayer aspect are emphasized, with the latter being more about the social aspect than of a necessity for individual progress and success in the World, though it might prove helpful even in this way. Any Character can, by the new creature strength system and world interaction, become a unique individual and possibly a hero and legend.
   
     Regarding the end-game concept: Original game's end-game concept is defined by actions related to the level cap - all activities are determined by the uniform concept of a level progression. As there will not be a leveling system in this World, the game will not have a common end-game points for all Players and therefore have similar during- and end-game activities for all Players, as the mechanics should provide a particularity.
     Some players, looking for a blacksmithing experience, might focus only on blacksmithing. And this skill (with a more dangerous and therefore challenging World), as each other, can be mastered only by those, who work on it deeply. Existing non-playable character blacksmiths can be replaced by Player charaters, who can petition a proper authority for permission to establish a blacksmith within a location of its influnce (or do so on own risk) or establish a blacksmith in a secluded area. Other Players can seek them for new armaments or reparation of the actual ones (during their absence a common blacksmith can be always present or respawned [called to service, or already serving at the Player's forge]). Others, wanting to became mages, will study books to learn how to cast spells (the book might contain reagents, locations and pre-requisites) or might learn it alone – but this might be a more difficult process. A hunter can become a lone person living in the wild or protecting borders and as the new Strength system permits, few arrows from a novice archer would be enought even for an "originally-considered 60 level" uncareful mage looking for mysteries in the dangerous far places of the World.
     In this sense, the end-game for mage will be the mastering of a mage-craft, by trying to learn the most powerful spells, or after reaching it, to protect his mysteries from the intrusion of others, therefore seeking a solitary place where to work alone, or teach others and establish a mage-guild. Even a mage can re-orient on combat skills or blacksmiting, but this, in process, might decrease his potency of his already attained skills. Or someone can become a good fisherman, knowing a proper season, period and location.

     I have seen your work and it looks indeed impressive. I did not know that the modding community is on such a level to be able to create its own original materials in such an extent, as from my humble perspective of a person not skilled in modding, your dungeon environment appears to me as an independent object and I do not know a lot of persons doing this kind of original work by creating a whole new environment. And yes, your contribution is welcome and valued.

     I share your idea of differetiation of the World by its eventual particulation. It is one of the ideas I consider vital for creation of a unique environment to enable a more extensive gaming experience. I would indeed like to see this aspect incorporated. I can relate this even to the concept of fishing mentioned above, as some fish might appear only in particular season and place or under certain conditions (special food/lure required). So should be even with the haunted areas you have mentioned, with skeletons and ghost appearing in the given location. And your pointing out of a required attention for the real world day cycles is well noted – this is a matter which might, in particular cases, require an individual approach.
     And as Razorfen Downs have been mentioned, I would like to use this opportunity in different context and to inform that those should be situated at the current location of Crossroads, as seen in Warcraft III, and will not be an instanced area, as any other location in the World.

     I thank you again, sshroud, for your constructive and vital contribution to the matter. I believe it is an another step forward towards the realisation of the whole idea.

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